Haunt Weekly - Episode 415 - So You Think You Can't Scare...?

[0:23] Hello, everyone. I'm Jonathan. I'm Kristen. And this is Haunt Weekly, a weekly podcast for the haunted attraction entertainment community.
Whether you're an actor, owner, or just plain aficionado, we aim to be a podcast for you.
And we return to you this week, very much still in the post -haunt season comedown period.
We'll get into the work we did for our haunt in just a minute, but needless to say, no one's doing the work that they got into haunting to do.
Unless, I guess, you're setting up for Christmas, at which point, lucky fucking you.

[0:56] But on that note, everyone, if you want an episode from more cheery times, I guess, there's plenty out there. Check us out at the places we exist.
We're hauntweekly .com, hauntweekly on Twitter, or X, I'm sorry.
Hauntweekly on Facebook, youtube .com slash hauntweekly, wherever you get your podcasts from and pay special attention to the Facebook page, it's facebook .com slash hauntweekly. We will be doing some live streams there probably in the not -too -distant future next Sunday, A .D.
As we're hoping to get back into the groove of doing some live shows again now that haunt season is behind us.
So, yes, indeed, it has been an active week for haunt work, just not the fun kind.
No, we've been tearing down the yard display was a large part of the weekend.
Yeah, we ended up spending most of our Saturday, no, Sunday doing that.
Yeah, it was a large chunk of our Sunday doing that. Everything is down on our light display except for the wrestling ring.
Yes, and of course it's now raining for three days. Yeah, and it's funny because we were kind of like trying to accelerate this process as much as we could, which I now understand why every year when we take the shit back out we curse past us for putting it up so poorly.
But I think we might need to be more forgiving to past us because now we're dealing with weather and time pressures.
Namely, our lawn guy was supposed to come by on Tuesday.

[2:23] And we thought, well, we can have everything out of the yard.
And right now we have everything other than the wrestling ring.
So, and that includes all the cords, that includes all the lights, all the ground skeletons, all the ground skeletons, all the supports for the ground skeletons, the light tunnel, the pumpkins, all that shit is gone.
So, it's better there's just still a 12 foot by 12 foot wrestling ring in the middle of our yarn.
We do need to get that taken down but that's gonna be a that's gonna be a slightly more complicated process.
But what we were really big this year on trying to do this in a more orderly fashion and in some ways we have improved. Yeah.
I would say the coiling and separating of the cords and the lights has gone better. Mm -hmm. We definitely did that smarter.
Now I'm not sure if nine months from now us will recognize how much smarter we did it.
Yeah, I don't know. I don't know either. Nine months from now us might really hate.
Well, I don't know we'll have to we'll have to like put a pin in this episode See, this is to future us. Please.
We're not idiots We're just dealing with some abnormal time crunch and the some really fucky weather Mm -hmm, because it's like we talked about when we were putting the goddamn thing up.
We were under super drought conditions Yeah, which in New Orleans it does not happen, right?
Un -fucking -heard of especially summertime Un -fucking -heard -of.
Wildest shit ever for me from a weather standpoint and now we're basically reliving the first act of Noah's Ark.

[3:49] You know the first three days at least first three days because yeah, apparently it started raining this morning at like Seven or eight a .m before we got up realistically and it's not supposed to stop till sometime around the heat death of the universe But no no seriousness.
It's not supposed to even consider stopping until thursday Yeah now on the opposite on the positive side.
That means the yard mowing got pushed back So that gives us a few extra days, but I don't know how many of those days will be dry No, so that's fun.
But no, we're trying to also do things like organize our PVC We're trying to a make sure our PVC is the length we think it is Yeah, because we found out this season that not all of it is no Yeah, we we for most of the time we've been doing this we've been using hand cutters, which is stupid, Especially when you have a goddamn chop saw just sitting there ready to cut things like PVC pipe No.
I mean is it the ideal tool? No. Is it necessarily the super correct tool?
No. Does it work? Yes. Shut up. I'm not taking questions.

[4:53] But yeah so one of the results is a lot of our pipe was like the four inch segments would be four foot segments rather would be like half an inch off or a quarter inch off or some cases like an inch off.
Yeah. And that made it real difficult to put this shit together.
So hopefully next year we'll have this pipe measured, we'll have cut to the correct length, and the Tinker Toy set will build much, much faster.
Yes, and we're, you know, planning on expanding the Tinker Toy set.
Yeah, tentative plan, yeah.
Because our arches, our gothic arches that we have are... That we actually got at a Con Hunter's garage sale.
No. I thought we'd, no, I thought we picked those up from there.
No, we didn't. You sure? Yes. Okay. That was a different one.
Oh. That was, that's long ago.
We did pick up one from there, but it wasn't these. Okay, well, oh, no, you're right.
We got these shipped to us and it was very comical how they got shipped I remember now.
Yeah, because the packaging was ridiculous It was hilarious.
Yeah, because it like these are like seven foot arches, but they came in a box like a shoe box Yeah, you know Yeah it was so ridiculous, but basically some of the supports on them have broken because they've been used for three or four years and, So we're just gonna PVC it all away Yeah, you can tell these were not arches that were meant to be put down, pulled up, put down, pulled up, put down, pulled up repeatedly.

Plans for a PVC tunnel and challenges with hard ground

[6:16] You're right. They are wearing...now this is probably their last year.
And we have a tentative plan for a to do a full PVC tunnel the whole way around.

[6:27] Because now that we've actually gotten kind of the hang of building these tunnels, there's an opportunity to do something I think pretty goddamn cool.
Yeah, yeah, and it'll be replacing other things that we've used in the yard.
Hopefully the ground won't be so hard next year. Yeah, I guess that's really what it's gonna depend on because if the ground is as hard next year as it was this year I am NOT fucking doing this.
No, I I've already got no hurt in my hand from all the rubber malleting this year I didn't help that I also whacked the shit out of it once but um, I Know I'm not doing that again But anyways on that note every week we ask a question of the week and last week We asked you what was your favorite moment from the 2023 haunt season and y 'all came out with some good answers Yeah, crystal kick us off.
James Munsell James Munsell said finding a four -foot snake in one of my scenes I saw the video the video is up on our comment page.
It's commented and Yeah, that was a big snake that fucking happened.
I think that may actually be the first video comment. We've gotten on Facebook Probably.
Victor Ruelas said, seeing guest's face light up when they were told there was a haunted house because they moved it from the front of the house to the back of the house.

[7:47] Assumingly to give more room, less annoyance in the neighbors, da da da da da.
But yeah, I can see that people pull up go, where's the haunted house?
And you're like, it's in the backyard and then people get excited and yeah, that does sound awesome. Yeah.

[8:00] Brian Gackey and Jeremy Frick said the Haunters Against Hate take over at Niles Scream Park. It looked like it was an awesome weekend.
I'm still getting photos of that on my Facebook, fed to me by the algorithm, and I am not sad about that. That is a triumph of the algorithm.
It is actually making me engage with Facebook, which is something that I do as little as I can these days.
Yeah But anyways this week's question the week ties in with today's overall theme Which is what haunt actor has surprised you the most?
And I think for me the haunt actor that surprised me the most is actually one We're gonna be using as our example this week, so I don't want to go too deep into it.
Okay, but We also had but to give another one.

[8:49] We had a friend of ours his kids worked it and this is back when we loved kids But granted the parents were here.
So what a big deal but this kid weighed 80 pounds soaking wet.

[9:01] He was nothing you blew on him too hard You knock him over it look like which is funny because his dad's like a really muscle man Personal trainer type and there's like so opposite one another and physique.
It's like it's a hilarious, but be wonderful And I'm like this kid, and he's so upbeat.
He's so kind. He's such a good. It's like Where's this kid gonna find his sinister?
Where's he gonna find my kid? We're talking about 14. Yeah Yeah, mid to late teen actually.
Yeah, put it in perspective. We're in our 40s very Very relevant.
You're not in your late 30s. You're a kid. Okay, I'm sorry.
It's just just how we gonna be But man, and you know exactly I'm talking about but we put him in a cage because he wanted to be in a cage Which no actor wants to be put in a cage No, we put my cage and Jesus tap -dancing Christ on a cracker That kid flung himself around the cage was such reckless abandon.
We had to literally rebuild it almost every night Just to keep it from being destroyed, Yeah, this kid had so much energy and so yeah That was before I think that was probably one of the first instances of learning that actors can be destructive Yeah, and we have to build everything Yeah, because that's one of our friends one of our friends who helps us do the build sometimes does set design Yeah.

[10:22] And one of the issues we keep running into with them is hey, we can't build to Hollywood set, right?
We have to build shit that's going to get knocked around have actors and guests crash into it We need to build this like it's going to take a fucking hit or a hundred because it is yeah, exactly, So yeah, that's I've been trying to get through both my head and there's and everybody's because you have to think that way But no that was one of those lessons of okay.
It's not enough to build it correctly It's not enough to build it. Well.
We have to build it over well. Yeah.

[10:55] You know, it can't be well done. It has to be burnt It has to be congratulations It's charcoal.
It's no longer edible Exactly. Oh well done. It's pretty much inedible.
But anyway, yeah, I know you have another one I think that's one that I think we both agree on Yeah, that's that's a good one because we were actually there are so many there are so many but that was one I'll just never forget because I like of all the actors I expected to destroy my shit That was last on the list, I think that I'm also gonna throw our doctor out there.
Oh, yeah, because he had never been to a haunt No, never acted in a haunt didn't really watch scary movies, but wanted to be in the haunt and.

[11:40] He Was such a presence that he commanded the space and didn't take a lot of didn't need a lot of direction.
No And he was and it didn't hurt that he was built like a once again, very very strong looking dude And could be very intimidating just by being in the scene physically, which is something we're gonna get into actually yeah, but um, But one of the things that he did was he found a way to hide being that big and that Instinct you can't teach.
Yeah, that is that is one of the secrets No talking about he found a way to make himself invisible Which is impressive like I said, he was taller than me and way stronger way bigger than me But yet you're right.
He just when he wanted not be found You weren't gonna find him.
And he managed to hide behind a fucking coat rack if I remember correctly.
Yeah, like an IV stand turned coat rack. Yeah, like there's no fucking way a man that size can hide behind that, but sure enough he made it happen. Good use of the angles.
All right, before we jump into this week's topic, which is so you think you can't scare people, dot dot dot, a quick update on McCain and Manor.
We're gonna talk more about this next week. it's a news episode anyway, but I did want to assure people that we had seen the news that McCamey Manor is being investigated by the Tennessee Attorney General's office.

[13:01] It's, the AG office didn't really say why, what they're investigating for, it's a bit unclear.
Well, it's because of the way that the structure is set up where he's at, is that they don't have an actual sheriff there.
It's the state troopers that are over where his house is.
Which I don't know which that that is something that's very common in very rural parts.
Like it's near I'm pretty sure like that would be a thing like in many of the places near where your parents live.
Yeah. Maybe not where your parents specifically live but nearby.
In between areas. Yeah, and he seems to exist in one of those in -between places.
In fact, oddly enough actually, it's not just rural places because remember Ellie's old house was an unincorporated outside Belleville.
Yeah. And so they would have had state troopers too. Same deal.
But anyways, so it's unclear whether they're investigating it.
People are attributing it to the Hulu documentary.

[14:00] I don't know. I'm wondering if Reckless Ben might have caused some of this?

[14:06] Reckless Ben definitely had an impact but he Reckless Ben also said that the Hulu documentary was supportive in bringing these charges.
Yeah I have not watched the Hulu doc yet.
No. And it's because it tears me in three different ways. One is I don't want to support anything with McCamey Manor's name on it that might be remotely helping them. No.
But I the second is I I feel like I need to see it because, you know, podcast job, things like that.
And the third is I just don't want any more fucking McCain -y manner in my life that doesn't involve reckless bin. Yeah, pretty much.
So you know, those are the three ways I'm being pulled on this.
Let me know. Should we watch it? Should we talk about it?
Hauntweekly .com, Hauntweekly on Twitter, Hauntweekly on Facebook, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, Yeah, just let us know.
I'm curious what your thoughts are. If you've seen it, let us know if maybe I'm being an idiot here. Mm -hmm.
So anyways, we had an interesting conversation with an actor this year.
Yeah. Well, you did so why don't you lay it out?
Well, I wasn't there. Fuck this. Well, basically when we were getting ready to build the haunt this year they were disappointed with last year's performance for them as I had stuck them in the front room and.

[15:20] It was didn't really give them a lot of instruction and and that's on me for not working with them more but they said they couldn't be intimidating and they couldn't be scary, that there was no way they could scare people.

[15:36] And they said that the reason was is because they're short And let's be clear.
They are short. They're not like, you know, they're about five feet.
Yeah, they are dead Yes about five foot dead even so they're about a foot shorter than me.

Scaring People with Short and Small Attractions

[15:55] And I but basically Yeah, they felt they were too short and too small in general to really get good reactions Yeah, and you took one look at him and go.
Oh you want to scare people mm -hmm We're gonna make that happen.
You're gonna scare people this year and by Lord ditch Yes, they did Yeah.

[16:19] And I didn't tell them what they were gonna be doing until like two weeks before we up Well, that was actually a good strategy because I I really think if you had told them Doubt would have crept in any they still had enough time to doubt They they still told me before we opened that this wasn't gonna work.
This wasn't gonna be scary Oh my lord at work though. It worked so fucking well. So what did you do?
Basically an elevated dot room In put them in the museum room with Different this room had various heights A lot of verticality play. Yeah.
There were things in the ceiling, there were things on the ground, there were lots of dummies that were people -sized and not people -sized, and one of them was an eight -foot...
Mmm animatronic that we got maybe in 2005.
I don't remember when we got it. I think we either got it as a gift Yeah, or we got it. It was a spirit Halloween sale or something like that.
Yeah, it was definitely a gift It was not something we would I don't think we would ever would have bought for ourselves I don't know the early days.
It was So I'm Fred and Wilma from those days, but yeah, but yeah, I don't know We obtained it somehow and have never really found much use for it No, um and it stopped as far as I know it doesn't work anymore.
It's a spirit prop. It doesn't work anymore That's just well so back but back then spirit props were better.

The Dress: An Unconventional Scare Tactic

[17:48] Exactly so So I've made it like eight feet tall and The idea was the actor was the dress not a full, Character just address kind of hiding underneath his torso of the animatronic.
Yeah Yeah, and and they would come out towards the groups.
Yeah, and the basic idea was we put you put we I didn't do shit in this room, You put like this really flowing tool dress on the animatronic.
The animatronic was really meant to be like a tabletop thing Yes, and so you just made the table way up in the ceiling He's that we put it on a huge platform way up over even our heads and gave it a long flowing dress and then the actor.

[18:35] Blackout suit with lots of tool.
Yeah, we then hide in the dress and then all of a sudden the dress But not the top part the dress comes to life. Yeah, what's the idea?
It was simple brilliant and so effective.
This actor said that she must they must have the scariest arms in the world. Yes, exactly.
Because their arms were bare.

[19:01] Actually added to it. I mean normally I would say no no no cover the arms You don't want anything showing on this type of here.
No, it actually really cuz oh shit That's because they would keep the arms like behind them until they become out And we go to like hug them pretend like they're hugging or something and oh shit.
That's a person Yeah would be and they were hugged once by a very adorable little girl.
Yeah You know, we've talked about it before Little kids are a crapshoot and a haunted house like this some of them just go through it smiles on their face and love in Their heart and some of them don't like the loud noises.

[19:37] But anyways it got us talking about There are probably a lot of people out there who think they can't think like this actor did that they can't scare What all they need is the right setup Exactly.
They need and specifically and a lot of this something we're going to come back to a lot is they need hot builders to think about this setup when they're doing the construction, because that's one thing that it always seems to be a disconnect at a lot of haunts.
The builders and the actors aren't really working together that much.
Yeah, and you know, we are in a weird situation because we design for the actors we have.
Like we have a crew that's been with us for a while. we know there's...
Last year was their first year, so didn't know their weaknesses or their insecurities.
Well, we knew about them fairly well, but we thought we were playing to their strength of being a communicator.
Yes. They are a communicator in their day job. Yeah.
And so that seemed natural, stick them in a communications role where they get to talk and interact and play with, but that didn't work out too well for them. That's okay.
Hot land is often the upside down. It's often the negative world.
People that do great in one thing, we're going to talk about that in a minute.

[20:51] So yeah. But here's the thing. If you're an actor that thinks you can't scare, I'm going to tell you the things you actually do need in order to be scary.
And then we'll talk about some of the reasons people think they can't be scary and sort of find out how to make it work for them.
All right. First, you need the ability to take direction, please, for the love of God.
Come with the ability to take direction. Listen to others and apply what you learn.
Right. And don't come in thinking that you know how you're going to be scary.
Yeah. Because if you are in this position where you don't think you can be scary, obviously you're not going to have the best idea of what will work.
But the thing is, I think one of the problems is some people who think they can't be scary come into a haunt.

[21:41] They uh get some they have a few things that doesn't go well basically yeah a few groups don't go well someone comes and goes okay you need to change it up to this this and this and rather than doing this this and this they just assume it's a failing on their part and it's done, it don't take the direction take the advice trust me and speaking of which the second thing is Adaptiveness.
The ability to see what's working and what's not.
So if you aren't getting the scares you want, don't worry.
Just change. Like once again going back to our doctor.

[22:18] First few groups struggled. Not getting scares, struggling with timing, looked at the scene, found a way to hide and pop out, and boom!
It all clicked. That's adaptiveness.
Yeah. Sometimes adaptiveness is the smallest Change but a small change can make a huge difference like you and that shower curtain and chamber of horrors.
Yeah, same thing that room sucked You made it work Because you had to adapt, You have to have a willingness to fail ain't nobody gonna bat a thousand and haunted house ever, Just know that no matter how good you are certain percentage groups You're not going to get the scare, but once again to quote Japes, we can't scare everyone, but we can't entertain everyone No, so focus on that and enjoyment of hauntings.
This is a dumb moment Okay, so it is a dumb moment, but we had a new person this year Yeah, who I thought was going to be great and was gonna love it and they worked one night and didn't come back Yeah, because they and I could tell I could tell within the first hour.
I'm like, how are you enjoying? Oh, yeah It's fun.
It's like no you you don't you're not getting it and I don't know why But they weren't. Haunting is not for everyone.
If it were for everyone, everyone would do it. Yeah.
Yeah I really wish that they would have come back and would have accepted a different role because I had a better.

[23:40] What I think would have been a better role for them. Yeah. You also need an understanding of there are many types of scary.
Yeah. Well, we definitely focus very heavily on distract and startle in our haunt.
There are a myriad of ways to be scary. Not all of them include pop -outs and startling people.
No. Some involve being much more unsettling, like, I don't know, coming out from underneath a dress and an eight -foot animatronic.
Yeah, exactly. It has a little bit of a startling, But the reality is that is also just that's just that's not supposed to happen You know, it's a brain breaking fear Exactly.
Um, you could also just be creepy like singing in haunted houses.
Oh, yeah, really weirds people out Yep, exactly.
It really does Sing nursery rhymes sing something sing public domain shit but sing That said, you do need a haunt owner that's building for various scares.
There's so many haunts out there that are immaculately decorated, immaculately lit, gorgeous to look at and walk through with no concept of what the fuck the actor is going to do in there.

[24:49] Yeah. And, you know, I really wish that some of the owners would bring, and maybe they do, Maybe it's just my perception is that they don't work with the actor manager and the the set designers Whenever they're in the first phases of planning Yeah, it seems like there's a big divide like most of the year the haunt bill teams They are doing their own thing Yeah and then the haunt actor managing actors come closer in the season on September and, That they're showing up and functionally a finished haunt exactly and that's not good.

[25:26] So, yeah, basically, and with, I'm sorry, within that.
Yeah, also know your limitations. Yeah. Because everybody has limits.
We don't want you to injure yourself.
We don't want you to burn yourself out. Burn yourself out or to get into your own head thinking that you're the problem.
Yeah. When it's probably that you were put in a scare that wasn't right for you.

[25:53] So yeah, but yeah, make sure you understand how the room is going to work.
Make sure you understand what's going on.
Anyone can be scary if given the correct environment.
Exactly. And so, okay, and real fast before we kick into this, we'll be talking about people with different body types, ways people are differently abled, etc, etc, etc.
If that is bothersome to you or triggering to you in some way, Mm -hmm. There are 414 other episodes.
Please go check those out there. Most of them are at least mediocre.
Oh, yeah Some of them are even good.
Um, you know, check those out. We don't want anyone to upset anyone or angry one We're not we're definitely not trying to body shame or disability shame or be ableist here Yeah We're trying to show that Haunting is an activity that scaring people is an activity can be enjoyed by pretty much everyone who enjoys it And is willing to invest.

[26:48] You know, the time energy into learning the skill Speaking of which we'll start with the one we learned the most about I'm too short Yeah, if you think you can't scare people because you're too short you need to shut up I'm sorry because short people are great for scaring.
I do not that is an advantage in many circles Yeah, well and it's because a lot of people think you know giants are the best scarers, you know It's like wrestling rules.
Well, yeah, and then, and there is something to be said. We just talked about, you know, our doctor and there's a couple other people we had who were big, massive physical presences.
And you just knew that, you know, oh shit, that's a huge dude when you walked into the room. Yeah, that's a thing. But here's the thing.

The Advantage of Being Short for Hiding

[27:32] Somebody appearing where they're not supposed to appear is scary too, almost regardless of the size of the person.
And so short people are easier to hide. Hmm. Yeah, and and that could be you know from just about anywhere, Yeah Basically, you know, you might not be physically intimidating But you can be really creepy and like this actor we're talking about is five feet to put that in context, The the average skeleton you buy for your yard display is five feet Yeah So they were the exact same height as our skeletons Which means they're also the exact same height of dolls and other things that are quote -unquote adult size But that they'd always make them five feet.
I don't know why yeah That is a thing that seems to be true though.
But yeah, that is so easy to blend in and hide Yeah And you know you could do vertical attacks from either down below or up above because you can get in tinier space exactly I, There have been many many times.
I've been haunting I wished I had like six inches to a foot taken off my height because I would fit into places better I'd be more comfortable in that area.
Yeah, I keep them going back to when we worked the chambers.

Utilizing Height for Scaring Techniques

[28:48] That little nook I had to hide out in the blackout hallway if I had been like six inches shorter I probably would have been much more comfortable, you know, but now they had to put my six -foot ass in this tiny nothing burger of a space But yeah, this is this is a great and if someone because what doesn't work as well It's just you being in a room and people walking into the room and scaring Yeah, because you're not gonna get that immediate physical intimidation That's why coming out from hiding.
That's why attacking from above or below That's the strategy use the false Luke use the shortness to your power.
It is great Some people actually do say that they are too tall.
Yeah, I don't think it's as common as saying they're too short.

[29:38] But I have seen some great scares We're really tall people or sometimes even accident with like platforms or stilts Like like you mentioned the shows they sit down and then stand up Yeah And it's just like uncanny valley because they go from being a fair because like tall people sit down there fairly normal height and then they Stand them. Oh shit. Yeah your way up there.
Well, and if you're tall You know don't feel like you can't lean into it.
Yeah, because We have worked with some actors who in their day -to -day life, try to make themselves smaller to avoid accidentally scaring people.

[30:19] You can leave that at the door. Yeah. You don't have to bring that into the hunt. Use that, you know. Yeah.
So, basically, yeah. Tall, I think, is a little easier to see how you can scare people with it, but at the same time, yeah, I can understand why people might think I'm too tall, I'm too awkward, I'm too, you know, gangly for this.
I'm too thin or otherwise small. We'll go into more to body type now, I'm just gonna say this Jim Warfield is Living proof that you do not need to be a muscle man Yeah to be a great haunter and get amazing scares yeah, it's it's very similar to the being short situation and You're not might might not be able to physically intimidate Cuz I remember the first time I was in a room with Jim Warfield.
I'm like, this is more field He's like nothing He's barely there, and then he starts doing his shenanigans, and it's genuinely unsettling and terrifying. Yeah.
So, but yeah, basically it's very similar to that. You're easier to hide.

Playing with Verticality in Scaring Tactics

[31:23] Focus on scares which allow you to pop out. Focus on scares in which allow you to hide around corners or hide in places in which a human being should not fit into.
And once again, verticality. Play with it. I think there's a lot you can do with that.

[31:39] Then the opposite of that is the I'm too large. Yeah This is basically me.
I put this in for me because I am a large person But what I do is I move quickly and silently and can invade space without anybody noticing Mm -hmm you you have always as long as I've known you you've walked on your toes.
Yeah, you don't walk like a human being Like if people saw your footprints in the forest, they would probably assume some weird human -shaped foot animal left those.
Yeah. Like, oh my god, well it's not Sasquatch, he walked heel to toe, but it's good. I do have big feet, um, but yes.
But no, you, you walk on the balls of your feet, which will get you kicked out of any marching band, but is very, very silent.
Right. and and it you know I can move faster than people expect me to move and when people see me I can you know once you get moving I I just kind of throw my body everywhere as an erratic movement that people don't expect it yeah because not everyone who is a larger person is, you know, unable to move.
Yeah. And if you are unable to move, then there are scares for you too.
We've got more coming down. Yeah.

[33:07] But yeah, I definitely think your point here is, it's about, because haunting in general, we've said this a million times, it's about defying expectations.
Yeah, exactly. And when Society sees a skinny person or a bigger person or a tall person or short person people craft Expectations in their head.
Yeah, and maybe we shouldn't do that Maybe that's because we're all full of people but we do and when you break those expectations.
Yeah It really fucks with people. So basically no and you probably already know what is quote -unquote expected with your particular body type Go against that.
Yeah, do whatever is not that like I.

[33:49] Yeah, exactly Sorry, then I know my nope.
All right. Well, my voice is too non -threatening Yeah, and here's the thing if your voice is too non -threatening Shut up, No, but seriously if you're not confident enough in your voice Don't talk.
No need to in fact, and I honestly believe this I was thinking about all the haunts we went to last year I think we could have eliminated about half of the actors who talked and And not miss the damn thing if they done something else.
Yeah, because I think a lot of actors would be better suited regardless of lack of confidence of the voice with not Talking because there are other ways to make noise.
You can hit things. Please hit things that are meant to be hit though.
Yeah The classic shaker can is super effective or as you found the clackety clacky the weird rooster call thing That yeah from Budapest, you know, you can find noisemakers or if you do use your voice Don't go for the intimidation if you have a very soft very gentle voice, You entered the Twilight Zone of creepy.

[34:58] Especially if you're like a full -ass adult and you have that because you can sing songs like you were talking earlier, right?
You can if you have a creepy laugh like we had one of those in the hot this year and goddamn that worked Well, yeah, and apparently he had been working on that laugh for a year and perfecting it really Yeah, this is what his dad told me whenever we were talking he he decided I he didn't sign up for the haunt until like a week before three weeks before open.
Yeah about two to three before opening.
Yeah so, um, but I don't know why he was perfecting it, but he was because he just picks up things and Yeah, and you put them in that expressionless mask.
It is genuinely like this is this is the last thing you see before the sound of tearing flesh Yeah, exactly Yeah, yeah, but no you can make noises you can make you know, And one of the things is, if you do not have a speaking role, if you're going to make a noise, if you can spell it, don't say it.
That's the JAPES system.
The rules of JAPESquisition.

Don't let your voice be intimidating in haunting

[36:15] That's a generally very good rule. My advice, though, is if you have a voice that you don't feel is intimidating or scary, either stop talking like you said or make noise some other way or if you're going to need to talk or speak don't try to intimidate with it don't try to turn a non intimidating voice into an intimidating voice even if you can do it you're likely going to hurt or strain your voice in the process yeah and you know it I don't know I I struggled with this one because a lot of people would think that I don't have a threatening voice but you're not what I'm picturing when I think of actors but not threatening voices well nobody can hear me yeah you are the reason our audio levels suck yeah I know sorry um but yeah basically don't let your voice be an be a factor in this decision at all So what are you picturing?

[37:14] Um... I'm picturing people with very meek, very squeaky voices. Oh, like in, um... Uh...
Police Academy. Yeah, yeah, Jonesy from, not Jonesy, uh, the girl from Police Academy.
Yeah. Yeah, that. Of course, she can make her voice intimidating as she does for the joke, but... And it does, it's great.
But the thing is, like, you don't need to do that to be a successful haunter.
You don't need to have that ability.
All right, the next one is actually one of my favorites. I'm in a wheelchair.

[37:48] Here's the thing. If you have never actually steered yourself in a wheelchair, it is a major talent.
Yeah, it is. I actually tried to get myself into the door of the haunt with the wheelchair and I couldn't do it.
Jonathan could, like we still have all of the space and stuff, but.
I was able to pull it off, but the thing is like, okay, I knew how to do it because I've actually had to do it in the past.
I knew how to do it Mentally, but I did one run through that haunt Two minute three minute ride through the haunt.
Yeah, I was pooped on the other side I was tired my arms were barking man.
It is hard Both physically and mentally to use a wheelchair Well, this is such a great talent and creates such an amazing movement that it can be exploited.
Mm -hmm Because you can have this very unexpected very silent very swift movement Yeah, and honestly, I'm thinking about it, and I don't know if the people who are using wheelchairs in haunted houses, unless they get up obviously, um, if they are, you know, taking full advantage of it.

Wheelchairs fitting in doctor scenes, adds intimidation factor

[39:04] Well, not only that, but, or if they, if If that is their life, I'm trying to find the best way to...

[39:15] You know, yeah, because there there are doctor scenes there are scenes where wheelchairs fit in.
Yeah and Being able like I think it'd be really creepy like one of those scenes like a hospital if your stalker was in a wheelchair Mm -hmm, just like casually staying like five paces behind the group Sneering.
Yeah, and everyone just every once in a while just getting closer exactly You're trying to get away from this person in a wheelchair who's just silently stalking that would have to be intimidating as fuck, So yeah, if you might need some extra space there might be something for a custom build But there are scares that can definitely work with a wheelchair Mm -hmm Like I said, this might be something where you need to talk with a haunt you want to work with early So they can build something have something to set up But there's definitely ways to make this work And if anyone, if you can't find ways to make it work, you lack imagination.
Well, and they lack imagination.
And every haunt should be ADA accessible.
I know that a lot of them aren't, but they should be. Yeah. But this might require a build on the actor side of things. Yes.
Um, next up. Um, have.
Other movement difficulties.

Communicating Boundaries with the Build Team

[40:33] Don't injure yourself. I don't want you to injure yourself. Talk with your team about what you're able to do ahead of time.
Like, talk with them early. And be sure to include both what you're physically and mentally capable of doing.
Don't put yourself in a position you're mentally or emotionally uncomfortable with.
That's a very important thing. But yeah, talk to the build team in advance.
I'm pretty sure You can be used as a scare actor and get good reactions with almost any limitation.
Yeah, we've had several actors with back issues That were fine either standing for the three hours or sitting for the three hours, but not going between the two So we built sitting scares.
Yes, we did and some of those were incredibly effective the old mirror blood and guts gag Yeah, incredibly effective still to this day. I really want to bring that back.
Yeah, we need to we'll have to rebuild it from scratch But honestly now that we know how to build it, I bet we can do a way better job.
Exactly Because we did not do a particularly good job last time.
No Some people think they're too old says who?
Yeah Seriously, so I don't even want to like honor this one with much thought because if you think you're too old once again, go back find what your your boundaries your physical your limitations physically mentally and work within those but.

[41:55] Haunters work at any age.
And honestly, you know, yeah, haunting is in many ways a young person's game because it is so physical.
But believe me, there are so plenty of people who are not, not quote unquote young in haunting getting good reactions.
So let's just move on. No.
The next one is I'm too nice.
And there are people who are perceived as nice.

The Perception of Being Nice or Terrifying

[42:25] Once again, I am one of those people usually.
Well, either people either people like perceive me as nice or terrified of me.
And that's been that way my entire life.

[42:38] Yeah, with this one, I think once again, it goes back to you probably already because you've lived as who you are for your entire life.
Yeah, you know, kind of what people automatically have the expectations of with you.
Yeah, this is an opportunity to flip the script. You can pretend to be nice and then snap and then and then do crazy stuff Or you can just be mean because there is something very very scary about a seemingly nice person, Behaving like a cruel monster.
Yeah, it's very unsettling if So yeah, you know how people clock you pretty well Do the opposite of that?
Yeah, and you know Lure them in yeah, like lure them in with the niceness if everyone thinks you're nice.
Yeah, just start out going Oh, hello. Thank you for coming. It's so nice to see you be nice and then just like flip the script or yeah, like oh My gosh, we're gonna have so much fun.
You're gonna enjoy this so much We're gonna pull the guts right out of you and you're not even gonna feel it, you know Yeah, just start talking creepy.
Yeah, obviously don't say pull the guts out of them because you can't actually do that But you get the idea, but yes.

Haunting is for Everyone, Regardless of Race or Ethnicity

[43:55] Don't think you can't be scary because you were the quote -unquote wrong race or ethnicity We've not actually heard this one at least not directly in our haunt thankfully But heading it off haunting is for everyone Basically, that's the whole point of this. Haunting is for everyone.
So there's no quote -unquote wrong race or ethnicity. Just end that there.
But finally, we have a few more here that come up a lot. One is, I'm too new.

[44:25] Um, everybody was new at some point, everybody.
Don't let anybody tell you that they were always a veteran. No.
So if you're working at a haunt, follow the lead of veteran actors.
Talk to your zone leaders. Talk to your actor managers. Talk to people. Listen.
Um, ears open, mouth closed is the best advice I can give you.
Be ready to listen. Be open to learning. See all the stuff above.
If you're home haunting yourself, if you're wanting to build a home haunt yourself, and you're scared because you're too new, start simple.
Yeah. Go very small, very basic. Try to build maybe a drop panel or something like that.
Like that's how we got started. Yeah. It's basically just a drop panel.
We had drop panel because of when we bought the house, we didn't even use the full garage.
So we used about the very first year here, I think we used Maybe half of it full.
Maybe yeah, maybe a little bit more maybe a little bit less but about half.

Start small, focus on one or two things

[45:27] Yeah, but start simple keep it easy don't try to take any big swings focus on getting one or two things, right Yeah, and then take those things into the next year and get two more things, right?
Then get a few more things right and add that's how you build it Mm -hmm.
Um, so yeah start something small manageable expand and grow and also all hail YouTube.

[45:50] Because it has been a boon for us haunters because like when we were coming up as hunters back in the olden days, Haunters like to keep secrets from one another which was bad for the industry of haunting in general So now there's much more sharing much more much easier to find tutorials and things like that So all hail King YouTube.
Yeah, and also ask for Extra time to practice and really hone your scare if it's available.
Yeah, if you can do that Absolutely and get someone who is a veteran there to like give you feedback on it. Mm -hmm.
All right Alright, I'm too broke or poor Yeah So simple scares are still effective.

[46:39] They're actually the best in many ways.
Yeah, you don't need a fancy set or fancy costume or anything like that.
I mean I got my starting home haunting way back with my parents when I was with my parents Doing using nothing but trash bags and whatever Walmart costume I picked up that year.
Yeah But I learned, you know play with expectations Learn where to hide be somewhere that you're not supposed to be boom, Well, and I mean and to be honest, we don't use a lot of store -bought costumes, in our haunt even now almost, We're we're approaching 20 years in two years. Yeah. No, it won't remind me.
Yeah. Um, but yeah, no We were more of goodwill and yeah, and oh shit these jeans tore.
Oh, well zombie pile Yeah, exactly.
We call it the clothes pile, the zombie pile, typically.
Or the skeleton. Or the zombie slash skeleton pile. Because that's just when clothes are too worn, and that includes shoes, to be used for people, they get used for dummies, they get used for skeletons, they get used as costume bits. Exactly.

[47:50] So, yeah, don't throw away clothes. Yeah.
And also, you don't have to have the high -end makeup.
I actually have had some of my most successful, looks with Dollar Tree makeup Well, and like when we had one of our best makeup artists helping us all they used was Knox gelatin and dyes Yeah, that's it That was the makeup kit.
Yeah Literally, I just told you everything that was in it Pigments plus Knox gelatin can go a long way.
So yeah, don't focus on spending a lot of money you don't need to buy the 12 -foot Home Depot skeleton.
Just focus on some simple scares that are easy to build, easy to do, and yeah, it'll serve you very well because once you master those, if you do get money and you can add those expensive elements, it'll be cool, but your fundamentals will be strong.

[48:43] I'm too easily scared. I don't like haunted houses. I'm too scared.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no, take it from us, literally every person who has agreed to act in our haunt but was tepid because they were too scary, loved being an actor.
Yeah. This is the opposite of being scared. It's the legitimate, literal opposite.
Yeah, so you have the power now. I mean, it's, it is a power trip to be able to scare people that much, that consistently.

Acting in a haunted house is a power trip

[49:17] Yeah, it really is. And you're not the one being scared.
So if you don't like going to haunted houses Acting in a haunted house may be exactly what you need to pick up It may legitimately be your best approach for enjoying this art form is being on that other side of it It's and we've seen that time and time again.
Oh, I don't like haunted houses. I scare too easy I don't want to act in one.
Well, just try it for and then they get addicted Does that you're right?
It's a power trip and that is a hell of a drug it is really is.
And finally, we're going to talk about a few scares that are to consider if you don't have confidence in your ability yet. Yeah.
These are easy ones that pretty much anyone could slip into. Great.
Dot rooms, elevated dot rooms.

[50:04] Super simple scare you just hide into the background and then you're not part of the background.
Yeah, you design the rooms to the background and You blend yeah, basically and then you come out of that it is It's a classic.
It's been around since the JC haunt era.
Mm -hmm. And here's the fucking weird thing. It always fucking works.
Yep It's amazing, especially like I remember when we were at we went to another world Mm -hmm.
One of the last rooms I had was a actual fucking dot room like literally a dog and you know what it fucking worked Even then yeah, like one of the biggest haunts of call time the mega haunts of the country One of the last rooms was a fucking dot room and it still worked I mean and the ghillie suits are you know, basically dot rooms for my aunts.
Yeah Yeah, that was like a from Chamber Horrors again going back to that.
Yeah in the ghillie suit that would hide in a planter. Mm -hmm Probably the most consistent scares of the entire team. Yeah. And I include myself.
Yeah. I mean, probably the most consistent hitting scare because he looked like a fucking bush. I gotta give credit.
Um, yeah. Drop panels though, slash, you know, interactive scares like that. Yeah.

[51:17] I hesitate to mention drop panels because it's always seen as kind of a demotion for an actor.
A lot of actors see that as a demotion, but it's also a great way to hone your skills and build your timing. Exactly.
Because you don't have to think about anything other than when you're dropping that panel.
Yeah, and the other thing that those types of scares are really good for are introverts or people who don't know how to deal with crowds well, because it gives you a chance to be by yourself.
And it's also if you're particularly scared about like getting hit or punched by customers, it helps because you have an automatic retreat space built into it.
You don't have to custom build a retreat space. You have one.
So, yeah. Honestly, I love drop panels, and I kind of regret we haven't done one in a while.
But I also know that we kind of overdid it and maybe burned that bridge years ago. But we'll see.
Well, yeah, we'll see. Any scare where you can be paired with someone else, especially if you're new or more experienced actor Yeah, but because here's the thing you can be distracted.
They can be the startle. You can be the startling I mean, yeah, you can work out how this room is going to Be and it gives you a chance to try both sides of the equation.

[52:36] You know if they're willing to do if they're willing to do it Yeah, because there are a lot of people who do not want to be distracts They just want to be scares.
I'm but I think it takes I actually think it takes a lot more finesse Oh, I'm able to distract someone long enough for the scare.
Yeah Think about it like this, right? Like the distract has to hold the attention of the crowd coming in for several seconds Yeah, really?
We'll say five to ten seconds and that might not seem like long but in a haunt it's a fucking eternity Um, the person doing the startle just has to get that like 10 millisecond reaction.
Yeah So yeah I think it requires at least as much if not more the very least a very different set of skills to be a distract than a startle I Really do so don't look at being a distraction as a demotion It is absolutely not because that is a hard ask especially in a lot of mobile I just want to say questionably designed rooms where you have to hold for like an inordinate amount of time And we had an actor this year that actually got to play both sides they were the distract in the first room and the scare in the last room and, They told me they really enjoyed being the distract more than they ever thought they would yeah It's a lot of fun, and it gives you a chance to engage with.

[53:57] Your customers in a way that you normally don't as a startle. Yeah, exactly, Um anything that'll make a loud noise or pop out from a hidden area You know one fun thing to do is go to like Party City or somewhere like a party supply store and just find a bunch Of random noisemakers.
Yeah Some some of the clackers the spinny things and just find some random bullshit Get some kazoos.
Vivizela they got it. Christ go nuts Man, that's a word we haven't uttered in like a decade, but the Zala, Jesus Christ, Jonathan, busting out the deep cuts on the noisemakers.
But no, yeah, go buy some random party stuff and use those to make very unusual out -of -place noises very loudly at a safe distance from people's hearing and your own.
But yeah, that's such an effective scare. And you don't even necessarily have to come out of the hidden area sometimes depending on how the noise is, right?
And also the ever so classic just sneak up and join a group.
Yeah, I Love when actors do this well.

Actors struggle with throughput in haunted houses

[55:08] Because the main thing that actors mess up Well, the main problem actors have with this is that honestly that throughput in a haunt can be weird Yeah And groups get mashed and pulled together and pulled apart and whatnot so they can be very difficult to actually do this And a functioning haunt, but the times I've seen an actor pull this off.
Well, it's always fun And I especially love it because if we go through with some strangers to us The strangers are usually ahead of us and we're hanging back and we're taking our slower tour of the haunt We're looking at things so the actor can just easily slip in the middle and scare the blood shit out of people The randos we went in with and that's always great and brings a smile to my face But it's a very simple scare as long as you have the confidence of movement and feel comfortable getting in that personal space.

Haunting is for Everybody

[55:58] It's an easy that one is surprisingly easy to learn it sounds like a difficult scare, but it's not On that note everyone.
Thank you. Hope some of this may be inspired someone, you know to get involved with haunting My genuine belief is that haunting is for everybody who wants it to be for them who wants to enjoy it Yeah, all they need is either the right scene built for them, Or the right instruction to guide them.
Yeah, one or the other maybe a little bit of both But either way, absolutely everyone who wants to be scary can be scary. Just finding the right formula.
Well, on that note, everyone, thank you for spending the past hour or so with us. Greatly appreciate it.
I know this episode was a little late this week, but it's because we were so dead tired from Sunday and taking down the 90 % of the yard display.
If you want to see other, want to listen to other Haunt Weekly, check us out. HauntWeekly .com, Haunt Weekly on Twitter, Haunt Weekly on Facebook, and YouTube .com, Until next time though, I'm Jonathan, I'm Krystal, and we will see you all next week with episode 416, divisible by 4, it means it's time to do The News.
And we actually have a lot to go over, so it's going to be an interesting news episode. See y 'all then.