Haunt Weekly - Episode 426 - Reality TV for Haunters

[0:24] Hello, everyone. I'm Jonathan. I'm Crystal. And this is Haunt Weekly, a weekly podcast for the haunted attraction and entertainment community.
Whether you're an actor, owner, or just plain aficionado, we aim to be a podcast for you.
And we return to you this week, A, apologetic. Yes.
We'll get into it in a minute because we missed last week and relate this week too.
We'll discuss in a second, but also excited to talk about garbage TV. I mean, reality TV.
Yeah. I said the quiet part out loud you did you did so yes we're going to be talking about reality tv for haunters things that you might want shows you might want to watch things you might glean from them and just basically some ways to make sure that your we'll say uh questionable tv viewing doesn't go completely to waste yeah how's that that sounds reasonable if that doesn't sound like a bag don't worry there's plenty of other episodes of haunt weekly out there you can check them out at HauntWeekly.com, HauntWeekly on Twitter, HauntWeekly on Facebook, and YouTube.com slash HauntWeekly.
You can find us wherever you get your podcasts from, and pay special attention to the Facebook page, hoping to have some very cool things heading there shortly.

[1:32] We have a couple of housekeeping notes. Yeah, I'll start off.
Apologies to listener Courtney Kuhn.
She came to New Orleans and had asked for some tips and tricks of where to go to, and I totally spaced on the timing.
I hope that your trip was awesome and that the late list was still helpful.
And it was one of those situations where it was also the fact that there was two of us. Yeah.
And it got confused as to who was taking lead on it. Basically, sometimes, usually we're very good at interrelationship communication.
Yeah. But nobody's nervous.
Exactly. And we dropped the dog on that one. We're sorry. Yeah.
I take a little bit of the blame too, but yeah, we, we, we dropped the dog on that and I'm sorry.
Yeah. This, this month has been extremely busy. Yeah. Not an excuse, but just.
Well, anyone who knows what I do for my day job. Yeah.
What knows that like the past two months of my life have been incredibly difficult.
Yeah. And incredibly all consuming.

[2:33] So yeah, it's, it's an interesting time to be the plagiarism guy.
Guy uh bill nye the plagiarism guy no no no okay no no not that but anyways the point being so yeah there's been a little bit of that too not to mention we were late this week because of illness that didn't help anything no uh yeah last week we were both incredibly ill and we don't think it wasn't covid no does not appear to have been covid but it could have been the flu yeah it could It could have been the random crud that was going around New Orleans, or it could have just been we were having the fuckiest weather I can fathom.
Yeah, there's a ton of crap going around right now. So, who knows?
Like I said, we were both knocked out for about a week, and a lot of that time was just not necessarily any specific symptom other than extreme exhaustion.
Yeah. And you couple that with the fact that I had a medication change. Mm-hmm. And...
That didn't go super smooth. It seems to be doing better now, but there's always an adjustment period, and that wasn't elegant.

[3:38] So, yeah, we both were ill. And then last week, and then, well, as we get into the work we did for the haunt, because unfortunately that's going to be also a blank for us.
Yeah. When we set up the rule that we were going to do work every week, we gave ourselves exceptions for illness and also for life getting in the way.
Yeah and life has been in the way a little bit mostly it's been illness and specifically we had last weekend you were ill and this week the doctor tried to murder you well okay so she didn't try to murder me i have reached out to her though um but i got an injection into my hand for carpal tunnel which i don't think i actually have but i might now um if nothing else i have a constant Well, they can treat that.
Yeah, I have a constant pain now that I didn't have. It's like my mom used to say, the only way to cure the cold is to let it become pneumonia. You can treat that.
Yeah, but anyway, because my hand was really bad over the weekend, we didn't get out there and do much. Yeah, the main thing we wanted to do and what we had planned on doing was a cleanup.
We've been doing demo for the past month or so and not being the best at picking up after ourselves, we'll say.

[4:54] Um so yeah we were going to clean up some tidy up something if we had extra time we were going to remove the ancient slam wall and probably break it down i think it's time for that just to be completely disassembled i think it's going to be easier to break it down as we pull it off that's very likely the case because the way it's affixed i mean no you can tell we were not planning on ever moving it no we did not plan this far into the future and we've looked at where the the screws and the bolts and other things are.
And it's a fucking mess.
And it's inside walls. It's not helped by the fact that we've built onto and around it for probably damn near 10 years now.
Yeah, because it was a major part of the spine of the haunt.
And it still right now is. It's about half the spine.
Exactly. And that's part of the problem is it's not a very good half of the spine. No. Structurally, visually.
Size-wise. size wise weird size it's i mean i know why it's there and it honestly it did well for us the years that we use it we did get a lot of years of use out of it to be completely clear so it's not like we put it there and just forgot about it no we got like five or six years of use out of it because we were able to constantly change it up it was a disappearing wall it was a breakaway wall.

[6:13] It's been a pass-through before we've used it for various things um so we've gotten a lot of good good use out of it.
I'm not complaining or anything. I mean, we definitely got our mileage out of it.
But every time we renovated it for the next thing it was going to be, we put more screws in random places.
We built more around and onto it and just made our situation that much more worse.

[6:37] So, yeah, unfortunately, between the illness and Crystal's hand, singular, we have not been out in the haunt this past two weeks.
We're hoping to pick it back up this week. The weather is still great.
So we're hoping that this weekend will be good. And it looks like it might actually be a really good weekend for haunt work just because it's going to be rainy.
Yeah. So it'd be a good time to be in the haunt. Yeah, inside in general. Yeah.
And I've got a new brace coming, so that should help too. Yeah.
So, and I seem to be doing better-ish.

[7:08] Yeah, but we'll see how next week goes because I'm about to head into two days of indoor meetings with 18 people from all around the country. tree.
Yeah, there's a real risk of new illness coming to the house, which makes me glad we're getting this episode, an actual episode recorded today.
Yeah. But yeah, that's the work we did not do for the haunt and what's happening there. Hopefully we'll be picking it back up next week.
So, but legitimate physical illness and pain were the culprits there.
It wasn't safe or good idea for us to do it for health reasons.
All right. Well, most weeks, at least we ask a question a the week and the last time we were here we asked you all what is the most unlikely place you've seen your haunted house mentioned in the wild we asked because we had seen it on a facebook group we were used as directions to find where a fire was in the neighborhood exactly which is just weird and awkward but whatever but y'all had some great answers too yeah bones bill fontaine said they had some people come out to me and talk to me about an old juliet prison that they located in chicago um and tell them how much they enjoyed the haunt um while they were cross-country hiking in canyon in canyon lands in national park in utah and canyon lane that was my favorite um childhood game no it wasn't that was nobody's favorite childhood game.

Haunt Property Garners Unexpected Recognition

[8:36] It's right up there with chutes and ladders fair enough it's a bullshit game and everybody knows it, um call al gore i don't know i don't know sorry cole uh please correct me um, um got a shout out um on my yard display on a podcast called the big scary show which we know the big show we've been on the big scary show yeah um for answering a trivia question that's pretty cool yeah uh michael micah arnold said our trail was graciously loaned to us by a private private property owner.
He had a huge home on an acreage, and during a party, some of his guests asked him if he had heard of our haunt.
He was shocked and told him, I have. It's here.
So normally, see, normally hearing your haunt referenced on the haunt property, not unusual at all.
No. That's actually very normal. I can assure you that happens all the time, but that counts.
Yeah, it does. Because they did not realize it was there.
And I'm going I'm going to tell you this, that owner will probably never kick you out now because that's such a cool thing to drop on people.
That's a good story. That's a hell of a story.
Yeah, that's the kind of thing that really does make people want to work with Hans, believe me.
But this week's question of the week, what is your guilty pleasure TV show?

[9:58] Crystal, are we getting into that? Which one?
One because right okay so when i have a brain dead task to do for my job i put on background either a podcast or music or tv but the tv can't be too engaging it has to be something i can kind of ignore and that's what reality tv is good for for me so there's a lot of makeup ones right now yeah yeah you have been watching a lot of face off a lot of blow up yeah and things like that Yeah.
I'm trying to think. I don't watch that much TV is part of my problem. Not really.
Do you consider BattleBots a reality TV?
Yes. I mean, technically, it's a cross between reality TV and sports.
I would say it's a little bit of both.
I don't know if I call it a guilty pleasure, though.
Yeah, because I proudly own the parts of a championship BattleBot.
Yeah, that's not guilty at that point. You're right. Once you've invested money in owning pieces of a battle pod, you can't call it a guilty pleasure.
Son of a Yachi 1.0, man. Gun monster.

[11:09] Sheesh, I'm trying to actually think what would be considered.
You liked Bar Rescue for a minute.
I did, and Bar Rescue may well be a guilty pleasure, but I actually like it, and reasons we'll get into, actually.
We'll discuss why I really, really like it and why John Taffer is someone I followed, not just the Roomba Rescue, but other things. Yeah.

Wrestling and YouTube as Guilty Pleasure Shows

[11:33] But, yeah, I don't know. I don't watch enough TV to really have a guilty pleasure show anymore.
You don't. And it's a lack of TV. I used to be a professional wrestling fan.
Yeah, no, you do a lot of YouTube and video game sound.
I guess if I had, the closest thing I might have to a guilty pleasure is watching, I do put on classic ECW television from time to time.
But, I mean, any wrestling fan out there is going to yell at me for even hinting, that it might be a guilty pleasure. Or a reality TV show.

[12:05] Well, we said guilty pleasure TV show. It doesn't have to be super reality.
That's true. So what is yours, though? Please let us know. Hauntweekly.com, Hauntweek on Twitter, Hauntweek on Facebook, and YouTube.com slash Hauntweekly. Leave a comment.
Send us an email. Whatever method works best for you. All right.
Well, it's also an even number episode.
And that means it's time to do the conference reminders.

[12:27] And coming up in the conference room this week is the two big ones, back to back. Well, two of the big ones, at least.
First off, it is HauntCon 2024, February 9th through the 11th, Daytona Beach, Florida, at the Hilton Daytona Beach Oceanfront.
There'll be a bus tour visiting four haunts, a haunted-style luau, a costume ball, comedy show, and more. HauntCon.com for more information.
Okay, March 7th through the 10th, it is Transworld's Halloween and Attraction Show in St.
Louis, Missouri, at the America Center, featuring a zombie showdown challenge. parties at City Museum.
Also host a Christmas show, Ha Show, H-A-A-S-H-O-W.com for more info.
Then next month in April 12th through the 14th, it's Fear Expo Live at Owensboro, Kentucky, the Owensboro Convention Center.
Free admission, ultimate haunt tour featuring six different haunts, costume contest, and more, fearexpolive.com.
And April 25th through the 28th, It's East Coast Haunters Convention.
Well, if you read the notes, it's full. I know. I corrected it on the spot.
Yes, good job. But I had to pull it out because I did it. It's in Oaks, Pennsylvania at the Greater Philadelphia Expo Center.
A brand new conference. A few details right now.
But you can follow them as they come out at EastCoastHauntersConvention.com.

[13:53] All right. Well...

[13:57] A lot of great shows. It is definitely the peak of haunt conference season, not surprisingly. So a lot of good shows coming.

[14:04] Hope to see y'all's photos as you go to them, because we're not actually planning on going to any this year.
Not yet, at least. No plans as of right now, I should say. Okay, well, anyways.

TV Preferences: Reality TV and Competition-Based Shows

[14:19] Basically, neither of us have been reality TV buffs. Not really.
I think that's fair to say.
Yeah. I, for a time, got into Hell's Kitchen back in the early seasons. Yeah.
Well, and honestly, since Ellie's been around, I think we've seen more than we ever have before.
Or ever would have thought we would watch, you know? Yeah.
Because she watches a lot of TV. She makes fun of herself quite often, so I'm not saying anything she doesn't know.
Yeah, basically, it's like we're like the three little bears.
You've got Ellie that watches all the TV.
Me, who watches none. Yeah. And Crystal, who's just right in the middle. Yeah.

[14:58] But, yeah, so we don't watch a lot of it. But I have been watching more of it lately.
For the reason that I mentioned earlier, that it's easy to put on in the background.
But when it first aired, Face Off, I was all over that.
I was like, I'm going to watch every season. I'm going to learn how to do all this stuff. And I got frustrated because they weren't showing a lot of the techniques.
So I stopped watching reality TV altogether for years.
Now, you just said screw all reality television. Pretty much.
I mean, so I like the ones that are more competition-based in general, if I'm going to watch one, not the ones that are that other stuff.
Actually, I just thought of my Guilty Pleasure TV show. Okay.
And it's a reality TV show, technically.
Taskmaster oh yeah although I don't know if that's if you could own Greg Davies' head we would totally have Greg Davies' head in the house no absolutely that's not that's not really a guilty pleasure that's true okay fine Taskmaster New Zealand exactly exactly, I'm sad Taskmaster America never really took off. Yeah.
I really, I really, what, it's like that show and also the American version of Red Dwarf. Yeah. Never went anywhere.
Yeah. And I'm pissed off about both of them because I think there's actually real potential for both. But anyways, back on track, back on track.

Glow Up vs. Face Off: Different Approaches to Reality TV

[16:27] But anyway, recently I did pick up Glow Up because it was advertised at me.
Um and from there i've taken a different take on reality tv well and i've watched some of glow up i've been okay let me rephrase that i've been in the room while you've been watching yes some and picked up a little bit and i i see why you were frustrated with face off because yeah face off at least this is my perspective once again not super but then again you're watching the background too so what do you care yeah um but the thing for me with face off was it was like okay hey, this is your task.
Everybody breaks apart. Everybody decides what they're going to do.
You see like one clip of them doing it. And then poof, it's done.
Yeah, that kind of is what it feels like, yeah.
And with Glow Up, at least it felt like there was a little bit of an explainer.
I'm using the airbrush and flicking this way.
Yeah. And like they're actually discussing the techniques.
And like I know jack shit about makeup. Yeah.
I'm kind of out of touch with it. That's kind of why I watched it.
Like, I don't, I know jack shit about makeup. There's a reason I wear an expensive mask. No. You know? No.
It's like, it's like my handwriting's bad and there's a reason I type 120 words a minute.

[17:44] It's because I'm overcoming my shortcomings the best I can.
But yeah, but with Glow Up, it actually felt like you could theoretically learn something or at least understand the techniques you needed to master and practice in order to do these effects.
Well, especially with the last challenge of each episode, it gives you an instruction.
It tells you what they're doing, it shows you how to do it, and then the contestants try to do it.
And then they tell you why it's wrong or why it's right, which that's constructive criticism.
And being from the art world, I know how to take that.
So that was, I think that's why I got it. You seem to think artists are well-renowned for their ability to take constructive criticism.

[18:27] Well, you know...
Just because you can. Yeah. Well, I think a lot of... That's a different show.
We'll talk about the egos of artists later. Yeah.
But, yeah, no, I agree that they seem to actually put a lot more focus on the specific techniques.

Teaching Techniques and Fostering Interest in Learning

[18:46] And it kind of reminds... And this is going to be like a crazy analogy.
But it reminds me a little bit of the show Beakman's World and also the old Bill Nye show.
Yeah. And that the goal isn't necessarily to teach you the techniques.
But to teach you what you can learn and sort of to get you interested in learning.
It's meant to make you want to learn these things rather than actually teach you how to do them.
They're not instructional, but they're teaching you the techniques that you're used and what you would have to practice and how you'd have to build in order to actually do these things.
And that's really, really important in education because if people don't know what they don't know and aren't interested in filling those gaps, they're never going to do it.
Exactly and that's what shows like glow up bill nye and so and beatman's world all do is they try to get that excitement going for it yeah and i think that's something.

[19:39] Because i think the point of glow up is to do that yeah to get people interested in doing makeup where i think the point of face off is to get people going wow that's cool yeah and then walk away yeah or wow that's so cool and then listen to the judges pick it apart and say what's wrong with it or what is really cool about it.
Yeah, exactly. It's not about...

[20:02] I mean, apologies to anyone who actually got excited about makeup from Face Off.
But I don't think the show's designed for that. Well, so I think...
I think there are very few spaces where horror makeup is featured as an art form.
So I'm excited about it for that reason. That is true. That's a good point.
So watching enough of those shows where it shows you a good job versus a bad job, no matter which genre of show it's in, can let you hone your taste for what you actually like and why you like it.
Because that's a big part of knowing where you want to go if you produce something that you don't like is being able to look at it and say, oh, I don't like it because of this.

[20:50] Yeah, I noticed when watching with you on the recent episode of Face Off, they were doing demons. Yeah.
And some of the demons, I'm like, that's cool. I could see doing something like that in the haunt.
That's like really skillful, but it looks stupid. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah and yeah i i don't always agree with the judges but anyways i think the whole point of all this was that reality tv can be useful to haunters yeah exactly and we've just been about seven minutes discussing going completely off script well you know that's what we do yeah but yeah and i think your point there speaking to testing your creativity that was It's very important.
And that is, you know, listening to, seeing what is presented and going, I like that.
I don't like that. There's merit in that.
Yeah. And, you know, you can also give yourself the challenges that the contestants take on.
Like, there's nothing that says that if you like a challenge or even if you don't. In fact, it is oftentimes more useful to do challenges that you're not interested in.
Just to see how you would approach it. Yeah, and...
It's also really good to do challenges when none of the presented designs or whatever really work for you.
Yeah. Because it lets you see what you would do different and what you would like. Once again, it's about honing your taste. Yeah.

[22:19] So I've been thinking about this, and I think I actually am going to do this with some of the small makeup challenges because we don't have a makeup artist right now in our home.
No. everybody kind of does their own thing.
Everybody who does makeup is a little bit good at makeup.
Yeah, and I wind up doing two or three makeups plus my own right before opening, which is a five-minute makeup.
So it's not the best, but I think we do okay.

[22:57] But anyway, I think doing these challenges, especially the speed ones, would help with that.
And I think it could help other haunters, too, who find themselves in a similar situation where you have to hit it fast.
Yeah. So learning new skills, new techniques, focusing on shows that sort of test.
And, you know, we've talked all about glow up and face off, but you could also turn to things like, you know, Junkyard Wars where you're building with very unusual materials if you're a haunt builder. Yeah.
There are usually Halloween Wars type shows every season. You can definitely watch those.
But even things like one of the shows that I found really useful as a haunter was the Halloween baking shows.
Okay, yeah. Because these mad bastards are not making...

[23:51] They're making very complicated, I guess you would say, tableaus in a lot of these cases. Do you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Um...
And the result of it is you get a chance to see, once again, what you like, what you don't like.
But you also get to understand painting and distressing techniques that you can actually use in a haunt. You just don't do it with frosting.
Yeah, exactly. Just don't do it with the edible paints.
Yeah, and a lot of those will go into detail about, I'm putting the highlight here because it does this.
And I imagine the moon is here and the light is hitting here.
Exactly. They'll go into a lot of detail and I really like the ones that are self-contained there because that means there's fewer contestants and they get to focus more time on each one and what they're doing.
Yeah. And you can really get a wider variety of perspectives in one episode in terms of how they're approaching a very specific challenge.
So like the ones that have like three contestants and they narrow it down to two and then there's like just two challenges.
Yeah. That works out really, really well for trying to understand the techniques and see what people do.

[24:58] And they'll also describe things like, yes, I'm posing this guy this way because this is a more aggressive pose.
Or because it'll make it more structural.
Exactly. And the structural part is important to understand how things balance and how you can make things look like they shouldn't be able to support their own weight. But they do.
Yeah. Which is really great for creating monsters.
Yeah. It's great for creating monsters. It's also great for creating sets that are off-putting.
Yeah if you come in and you see this giant thing hanging above you on like a little bitty pole it's gonna feel like that's about to fall yeah even though it's completely structurally sound, Yeah, there's a lot of cool things in that. Yeah, and it's also, you know, all of these shows also show you products in ways that you may not know are even possible for your medium.
Exactly. Like I recently saw somebody make latex intestines using just latex paint that they rolled up.
Usually I use oil socks.
Yeah, we use the oil socks, which we can get in very large numbers because of where we live.
Yeah. So it's very easy for us to get a shit ton of those very quickly and cheaply.
So we'll probably keep using that technique. But no, that's a neat idea if you don't have access to it, like your inland.
Yes, I was also very happy to see pool noodles.

[26:21] Yay, pool noodles! Shaped down for rat's tails.

Learning new skills in haunts and related shows

[26:24] You know, I think every haunter, though, has used pool noodles and unintended means at some point.
But yeah, you can learn a lot of new skills in this.
And so, yeah, find a show that, even if it's not directly related to what you do in a haunt, that is tangential.

[26:40] Yeah. And, you know, like for actors, there are reality TV shows that focus on improv, that focus on stand-up, focus on performance.
So you can find something that is at least tangentially related to what you do and pick up skills in it is the main thing I think we're trying to get across here.
Yeah. Even if it doesn't seem directly related, if it's tangential enough, you might learn something.
Them um the other thing is another thing to always learn is communication um yeah this is for every um show that has team challenges yeah once again taskmaster but yeah also hell's kitchen also hell's kitchen was the example that i came up with on that one because that was the thing that always blew my mind about hell's kitchen is you could always see when the kitchen was doing well versus when it was not doing well.
Because when the kitchen is doing well, everyone is talking, everyone is listening, everyone is communicating every fucking second they're working.
Heard. And they are speaking and they are heard. They are speaking, they're confirming, they're exchanging information.
Yeah. And that is how you know they're doing well. A kitchen that's quiet is probably secretly falling apart.

[27:55] Yeah, because everybody's in their own head and not wanting to work together.
Yeah. Because it's a competition, but you've got to work together in order to get to the end.
Yeah, and you get to see what good communication looks like and sounds like and feels like.
And once again, Taskmaster, I think, actually is an illustration of this because they have team challenges, but they often put restrictions on how the teammates can communicate.
Yeah. And so now you're watching them struggle. They can't talk with each other.

[28:25] You know, so how are they going to communicate then? And are they going to develop their own sign language? Are they going to pass written notes?
What are they going to do? One of them is blindfolded. Yeah. One of them isn't.

[28:36] One of them's blindfolded, but the other one's got their hands tied.
It's wackadoodle shit. But it's the kind of wackadoodle shit that happens in haunts. Yeah.
So, yeah. But mastering this communication, especially under non-traditional, non-ordinary circumstances, you can learn a lot there.
Like I said, Hell's Kitchen was really, really good for me about learning about communication with a team.
But you can also learn about communication with just one other person, watching and see who does well versus who doesn't do well. Pay attention, take notes, basically.
Yeah. Communication is such an important thing in haunting, and I've got to admit, reality TV is a great place to see it.
Yeah, and there's also an element of communication, like if you have models or clients that you're working with, making sure that the models feel comfortable, that the things you're putting on them aren't too heavy.

[29:28] And that you understand the brief, but we'll be getting into that a little bit further down. Yeah. All right.

Recruiting actors and models from reality TV shows

[29:36] So this is an off-the-wall one out there, but you can actually recruit from these shows.
Okay. You can pick up, you can find people that are in your area and ask them if they want to come out and do like a celebrity spot with you, do a guest actor spot, teach a class, and help recruit the actual contestants.
Because even if they didn't get very far in the competition, if you think that their vibe matches your vibe, they still beat out thousands of people to get on that show.

[30:10] You know well yeah and also one thing to pay attention to especially if you live in a big city is when these shows inevitably come to your town see how they are recruiting people yeah see how they are reaching out what avenues they're using because these shows are masters at getting crowds yeah and when talking with ellie um she's like why don't places with haunts do their own own sort of contest like this where they put the makeup artist of different haunts in the area against each other um you know this sounds like something john laflam boy would take up it sounds like the type of things john john you out there buddy.

[30:52] Free idea bucket all yours buddy you're gonna have it don't even have to credit us no it's fine but no seriously though you can learn a lot about recruitment from this and you can also like you You said recruit directly from it in some cases.
Yeah. But, yeah, I think the idea there of pulling from these particular audience, these particular contestant pools and getting them as celebrities.

[31:17] Yeah. Like you said, even if they didn't make it very far, that still, A, speaks to their talent. And, B, someone's going to be interested.

[31:25] Yeah, there's that one guy that plays the bars near us, you know, on our side of the river, not the other side.
And he was on america's got talent or something he was one of the finalists yeah but um he always gets a following just because people want to come see him and so if you've got people who have their own following off of these shows they'll show up to see them um okay so so marketing no next up sorry sorry pivoting yeah i skipped you were pivoting to marketing uh no but inevitably in all of these shows something goes wrong yeah like somebody's gonna have a bad day somebody's thing isn't going to work um and sometimes people notice when what they're doing doesn't work and they have to do the scary thing of start over when they've lost lost half their time but this is all you know things that you can see how people approach it differently when they know it's not going right some people take a break to refocus they step outside for a few minutes you know um and they also there's also a team element to it so that if if people are seeing that somebody's having a really bad day even though it's a contest a lot A lot of times people will just step up and say, hey, can I help you with that?

Handling challenges and supporting team members in haunting competitions

[32:53] So that you can, you know, if they're in a place where they can do that, where they can offer help. Yeah, that is.

The Importance of Thinking on Your Feet

[33:01] The ability to think on your feet is both, like, the hardest thing to teach.
In fact, I don't even know if it's possible to teach. I don't know either.
I don't know if it's possible to teach. But it's such a difficult thing to teach.
But it's also so critical.
Because every Haunter I know, their favorite scare story starts with something going wrong. Yeah. And then again turned around.
Or something going, maybe not wrong, but out of the ordinary.
Something happening different. And then they responded to it.
Yeah. And those stories are always the best because, you know, yeah, when a scare works exactly as designed, that's great and all and it's a lot of fun.

[33:42] But come on, we all love being the hero. We all love saving the day, right?
And that is one thing you can definitely learn is how to pivot.

[33:51] And I think, as you noted, one of the most difficult things is recognizing to.

[33:56] Yourself that this isn't working.
Yeah whether it's this room whether it's this particular scare whether it's this line yeah whether it's this costume whatever it is it's not working recognizing it's not working and being willing to take a gamble and make the change now on the surface it sounds so easy no because if it's already broken what are you risking yeah theoretically nothing but you've spent time you spent energy you invested into this it's hard to do that yeah overcoming that is important horned the other thing is if you're not in a position of power where you can change the thing that you see that's broken let people know and tell them why that's that's one of those things that you know we've been talking about is the ability to say why it's not working yeah um because they'll probably listen yeah and that's one of the frustrating things is when an actor says this room's not working okay what's what's wrong with it i don't know yeah well then fuck i don't know know how to fix it yeah i don't know how to fix i don't know no um is it because people are seeing you too soon is it because people are not seeing you enough is it because yeah you know what's going on yeah is the lighting off is the lighting too you know what's going on and yeah once you can identify why something isn't working a if you're like i said you're empowered you can fix it and if you're not empowered you can clearly spell what's wrong and propose a solution yeah because Because believe me.

Recognizing and Addressing Problems with Solutions

[35:23] People coming to someone with just a problem.

[35:25] I mean, yeah, don't come to me with problems. Come to me with solutions is a problematic statement a lot of ways. Yeah.
But if you can come with a solution, it's way better.
And if you can only come with a problem, come with a problem that has an explanation of why it's a problem. Come with details. Give the details.
Give the deets. That will make you so much more valued in anything you do if you're able to do that.
It really makes a world of difference. And this is something that doesn't just help you in haunting. It helps you in your day job. It helps you everywhere. Yeah.
Realistically. Okay, now marketing. Yes. Yeah. Okay. We talked about reality TV shows. I always liked Bar Rescue.
And the reason I liked Bar Rescue was because I liked John Taffer, to me, represent his...
I mean, he's an asshole, but so am I. So what do I care about that?
But he's a raging asshole. but he also is deeply passionate about business yeah and about making the business works and bar rescue even though his obsession with butt funnels is really fucking weird.

[36:33] Had to get that in there that's basically what cattle gate systems are though or just long butt funnels but no they're not butt funnels they're not meant to make you bump into to people the butt funnel thing is so fucking stupid anyway i i get we're getting off but seriously but no but he was very passionate about how everything has to look a specific way has to be standardized across like if i order a drink at a bar five times i should get the exact same goddamn drink five times in a row i have been in bars where i've ordered a jack and diet and I've gotten five very different drinks over the course of one long night. Yeah.
Sometimes from the same bartender. Sometimes from the exact same bartender.
And it's really frustrating when that happens. So he's all about standardization.
He's all about the business. He's all about making sure your pricing is set right.

[37:26] Pricing is a very big deal to him. And he's all about marketing and using everything you have at your disposal to sell the product.
Um everything from placement of lighting and what areas you want to light up hint the places that make you money yeah don't have your fucking ticket booth dark you dipshits yeah yeah jesus right yeah ticket booth should be lit um where to place items the high value items go higher up Yeah.
Like there's a reason why top shelf liquors are called top shelf liquors.
Yeah. Just to give a little hint there.
But yeah, basically all about how to position your entire hog to make money and to generate more revenue with what you have.
Yeah. And I also would use some of his specific tips for the merch booth, because not only are you putting the higher items up tall, up higher, but if you spotlight them then that draws more attention to them just like in your haunt if you want somebody to look at something put light on it that's brighter than the ambient light yeah it's always so amazing to me the number of haunts i've been to that understand that concept what you just described lighting they understand it in the haunt but when i go to buy the ticket.

[38:49] I feel like I'm wandering through the dark fucking forest trying to find a ticket booth. Yeah.
No. Well, and it's not even, it's also, you know, like I said, in the, if you want me to buy that handmade doll thingy that you specially commissioned for your art.
Or that giant metal work thing that meant to hang on my wall.
Yeah. It costs $500 or whatever.
Yeah. Yeah. Light it up. Make it look desirable.
Pedestalize it. Exactly.
Also, if you've got a shop, the wall directly to your right as anybody walks in is your most valuable wall.
Yeah, if you have a 3D space, a walk-in space. Yeah, this is just a retail tip.

Observing Shopping Habits: People Turn Right

[39:34] It's been lots of studies. You know, and it's funny. There have been a few times that we went shopping and you were looking for something and I naffed off.
And so what I would do is I would sometimes at least go to the front door and watch people come in.
Yeah. Try not to be creepy about it. But basically, and yeah, the whole people turn right when they come in, almost a thousand percent true.
They either turn right. The only exception I found that was that crappy Michael's near us, which has that big aisle right in the front door.
Most people go straight down the aisle because they're like funneled that way.
But that's going against the instinct. Well, and that, Michaels, doesn't really get this concept because they put some of their clearance stuff or on-sale stuff right at the front on the right.
Yeah, they do. Which you should have your high-end market value items there.
And an interesting piece of trivia, you learned this in advertising class, there's a reason why if you go to a grocery store, there's A, a floor section. Yeah.
And B, why it's in the produce section.

[40:35] And C, why those things are usually on the right as you come in.
Yes. Because they want you to come in, go to the right, and see all the freshness. Yeah.
And think, wow, this grocery store has super fresh produce and flowers and things.
They're great. I'm going to spend all my money here.
That's the exact point. Yeah. Pretty much to the T.
Yeah. Use those ideas. Bar Rescue and Bar Rescue, but also shows like Hotel Hell and others.
Restaurant Rescue. What was it? Restaurant. Restaurant Impossible do very similar things, too.
So you can also talk to them. But, yeah, I'm a bar rescue guy, ultimately. Yeah.

[41:17] Um, another thing you can learn is a lot of the times, um, they will bring, these shows will bring in clients.
They partner with local people, companies, and the contestants have to meet challenges set up by somebody else that meets that brief.

[41:36] You know, it, it has to look like this. It has to use these colors.
It can't use, you know, whatever colors you want on it.
It has to to be a beauty makeup instead of a horror makeup or vice versa you know and if you don't follow a client's brief and you don't communicate well with the client to make sure that you understand what they're asking for you're not going to win the contest it's really working with clients and that's my job yeah is always an art form in any field but in a mixture of creative yeah it feels like what we're talking about here yeah getting what you want and this can be you as a builder talking with the owner or it can be the flip side you the owner being the client talking to the builder here talking to the person helping and trying to explain your vision because that's really what this is about it's about communicating and executing on a vision yeah and it's an art on both sides.
The person executing needs to know what questions to ask and the person who's giving the vision needs to know exactly what to say.
And if there's a mismatch between those two, we'll just say fun happens.
Exactly. It's adventure time.

[42:53] Yeah. Yeah. Because, you know, I've had people tell me that they've done a job for somebody, but the client wasn't happy with it. so the client didn't want to pay them for their time, which is always an issue.

Importance of Communication in Various Environments

[43:09] It's like, that's not good. Yeah.
So learning how to do these communications is incredibly important in any environment.
And like I said, you don't have to frame it as client, you know, consultant or client, you know, provider.
You can frame it as boss, supervisor, employee. Yeah. It's the same thing.
It's just a matter of, you know, the employment status involved here.
Or volunteer and volunteer coordinator. coordinator um it's all about trying to communicate that vision and then execute on it it's an art i don't have all the answers but you're absolutely right that's something that comes up repeating reality tv watch how the people who do it will do it yeah that's what a lot of this is about and finally business business because this is a thing that you especially noticed it i especially noticed in bar rescue and restaurant impossible yeah there's a lot of people who get into those those fields, get into those businesses, and they're very passionate about food.
They're very passionate about the drink. They're very passionate about the atmosphere.
And they are fucking stupid about the business by the side of it.
Yeah, they have no idea what they're doing when it comes to the business side.
And once again, this is why I like Jon Taffer, but Restaurant Impossible goes into it a lot too, I know.

[44:27] So does Hotel Hell. But basically, learning the fundamentals of the business side of this is something you can really pick up from a lot of these more business-oriented shows.
And yeah, okay, I grant, you know, knowing that, you know, a restaurant's food cost should never be more than 30% of the price of a dish may not be super useful to haunt. No.
But the idea is useful. Exactly. Exactly. Being able to calculate how much you're spending per night, per employee, for your utilities, for your space, for everything.
Calculating that down to an hour and then doing the math to figure out how much you need to charge per hour.
Per customer, based on your throughput and what will reasonably show up.
Up yeah exactly your expectations i mean you need to be able to do that or else you're not going to survive and so many creative driven haunts struggle with this and have gone out of business because they didn't understand the business side and that's a shame yeah and and.

The importance of understanding the business side of haunting

[45:38] Haunting is one of those industries where people get into it for the passion, they get into it for the love, but don't understand the business aspect of it.
A lot of times. Yeah, it's one of those industries where it's a very common thing.
And for us, one of the reasons we talked about in the episode about why we don't go pro, one of the reasons we don't go pro is because we understand the business aspects of it.
We understand what we're up against. and we don't want to take that on when we can just be home haunters and do what we're passionate about and keep this as a hobby and not have to worry about those things yeah that that's always worked well for us basically and yeah but we've seen it time and time again where haunters get in because they're passionate sometimes build very good haunts but they don't understand the business side of it or they don't plan correctly for the business side of it and they end up closing after one or two seasons just because they don't have a plan to make it profitable and because you because, you have to at least break even yeah keep the door open exactly you need to to break even and.

[46:45] Like the first year is always going to be rough and you're probably going to run a loss that's just the that's just the cost to do with business um but you should have a plan for for recouping over time and for growth um you also need to like just know the basics about what permits you need are you fire code compliant yeah um you know how are you doing your recruitment recruitment uh all of the do you need contracts for your actors and things like that are you going to allow people to bring their own characters to your haunt are you giving them costumes yeah yeah who's owning the ip exactly yeah there's a ton of just business questions and there's a reason that we've long said that we wish more creative haunters would take business classes either at at the local community college or whatever, just to brush up on those skills. You don't need an MBA.

The need for haunters to learn basic business skills

[47:46] You just need some fundamentals. Yeah. But the flip side of the coin is, you know, you can learn a lot from these reality shows. You really can.
And once again, it's like, you know, the Beekman's World type thing.
You can learn what you need to learn, if nothing else.
It exposes you to the world that you might not be familiar with.
And for some people, it's going to make them go, oh, crap, I need to bone up on this. I need to learn more.
And if so, that's a positive thing.

[48:19] Well, that's all we have. Hopefully we made you feel a little better about watching reality TV.
And when, you know, your partner, your parent or family member or dog or whatever catches you watching, you know, that marathon of reality TV, you can turn to them with a straight face and go, no, it's research for the haunt.

[48:37] Got you back. This is business. In fact, I'm deducting it on my taxes.
But on that note, everyone, thank you very much for joining us for the past 50 or so minutes. Greatly appreciate you. you sorry we missed last week due to illness.
Glad we're doing better outside of Crystal's poor hand.
But check out more Haunt Weekly. We're at hauntweekly.com, hauntweekly on Twitter, hauntweekly on Facebook, and youtube.com slash hauntweekly.
You can also catch us wherever you get your podcasts from. That's Google Play, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Podbean, wherever.
We're not particularly picky. But until next time, I'm Jonathan. I'm Crystal.
And we will see you all next week with another episode of Haunt Weekly. See you then.