Haunt Weekly - Episode 431 - Haunt Trends We Want to See Grow

[0:23] Hello, everyone. I'm Jonathan. I'm Crystal. And this is Haunt Weekly, a weekly podcast for the haunted attraction, haunted entertainment industry.
We're an actor, owner, just plain aficionado. We aim to be a podcast for you.
And we're coming to you this week a little bit late. We'll be on that in a minute.
But we're here to be positive this week. Last two weeks were a little negative.
Yeah. This year we're flipping the script, baby. We're going to be positive.
We're going to talk about haunt trends that we hope continue.
Things that we're seeing, at least in some amount that we hope grows and becomes bigger and more awesome as time goes on.
But please, do check us out at the other places we exist.
We're at hauntweekly.com, hauntweekly on Twitter, hauntweekly on Facebook, youtube.com slash hauntweekly as well as any place you get your podcast from.
We pay someone good human monies to distribute that for us and make sure that you should have no trouble finding us, regardless of what obnoxious device you use to listen to podcasts. Even a Kindle Fire.

Kindle Troubles

[1:22] I've learned to hate the Kindle tablets because they're fucking terrible, okay? The ones we have are all fucking terrible to a man.
Granted, they're all, like, really old. Yeah, they're all old, and we only pay, like, 40 bucks for them.
I mean, it's not like I can bitch about how much we spend or anything, but no, they're actually horrible to use.
Every time I try to use one, I wanted to yeet it out the window, which is why I'm glad they only cost 40 bucks. Yeah.
Because if I do that, I don't feel too bad.
I'd be more worried about the damage I would do to the window.
What the fuck were we talking about? I'm going to throw off on that.

Work at the Haunt

[1:56] Okay, well, we'll start off with every... Oh, first off, it's work we did for the Haun. I should say specifically work you did for the Haun.

[2:04] You ended up having some time this weekend. You went out there, and tell the nice folks what you did.
So I cleaned up a little bit, and then I tore out the disappearing wall frame, and all of its supports, and took off a panel off of a wall.
A side of a panel, I should say. yeah because i had to in order to remove the frame because everything was built ad hoc yeah over a period of 10 to 12 years this basically means the entire back half of the haunt is disassembled now except for one wall that is standing by itself all alone lonely yeah wondering where its friends went yeah scared probably a little cold it's been raining really hard so i'd But imagine it's a little scared of the thunder.
Yeah, it's been raining a lot. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's been raining a lot.

Listener Feedback

[2:54] And more on that in a second as well. But first thing is first, every week we ask a question a week. And last week we asked what is going to be the topic of this episode.
But this time we planned this. Ah.
And we asked, what is a haunt industry trend that you wish would continue?
And Roberta McClellan said, social shorts.
Jesus Christ, that's hard to say. Yeah.

[3:17] She basically loves TikTok and reels and things like that.
I've never really gotten it, but you seem to get it. Yeah. Ellie seems to get it.
Dawn seems to get it. Roberta seems to get it. So that's fine.
I can be the freak. I can be the weirdo. No. I'm not uncomfortable with that role. No.

[3:35] Daniel Barnett said, broad social media engagement, breaking down gatekeeping norms and continuing to improve ADA accessibility, thinking about people with non-physical limitations, also working with charities, creating charities.
Yeah, the non-physical limitations is an interesting point because we're going to talk about, I think we talk about more later. Yes, we do.
So I'm not going to go too deep into it, but that is a very, very interesting point.
And it was something we had in our heads when we were talking about this topic the first time. So, yeah, points there.
Sam Farrell said, More long-term evolving stories like Hell's Gate or Netherworld, or I guess like what Mortuary was doing for a time there. Yeah, but they stopped that years ago. Yeah.
Also, I liked this one a lot. Embracing free admission to Midways for people who may not purchase a home ticket but want to play carny games or shop at the gift shop or do things like that.
I mean, 13th Gate doesn't charge for access to its Midway.
Right. Right, and basically they have a little fair-type area. Yeah.
Now, I will agree with that haunt we went to in Houston that charged for the Midway, because with your ticket to the haunt, you got free beer on the Midway.
And that, you kind of can't let the whole city in on that.
But yeah, all you're doing, if everything on the Midway is money...

[4:55] Why not let people onto it for free? That makes a lot of sense.
That's just good smarts. And it makes it so that if a group of five friends want to go out and maybe four of them want to go to the haunt, but one of them really doesn't like haunts for whatever reason or can't go to a haunt for whatever reason, they can tool around the midway, try the dunking booth repeatedly.
I've always loved that because I'm really good at throwing things with accuracy.

Embracing Free Admission

[5:18] So I get kicked out of dunking booths on the regular. um but basically basically but basically yeah they have something to do a they're not spending money they're spending money but they're not wasting money right they're spending money but not wasting it and this is a now a group of four tickets that you have sold that you might not have been able to sell otherwise yeah same with families who have young children who are too young to go to that but like going and seeing the people that are creepy walking around and all the games and stuff and make it a family out i think it makes sense to have something for the non-haunt goers to do for free that makes complete sense no all right james thurman said want more home haunts yeah home haunting has been weird it's like they're pockets of home haunting yeah like los angeles from all my understanding it's like the entire haunt scene is realistically home was there yeah which makes a lot of sense you're in hollywood you've got all these professionals in the movie and television industry of course they're going to set up home haunts gonna be banger.

[6:19] But yeah, there are other areas like here where, as far as home haunts go, I think we're the only large one.

[6:26] I'd agree with that. There was also a mention in his comment about, you know, people talking about how they used to go to a home haunt somewhere, and now that just isn't there.
And it is a gateway to professional haunts.
Yeah, both for the people who attend it and for the people who work in it.
Yeah. So it works both directions there.

[6:50] Scott Nassau says, Better Q-Line Entertainment cites terror on the Fox.
I would say Basement of the Dead is another one, too.
I mean, Basement of the Dead is the first queue line I was sad I got to skip.
Yeah. Legitimately. And that line was fucking long.
Yeah, it was. So to say that I'm sad I skipped it is a big statement. Yeah.
Amanda Hughes said more charity events and community service.
I agree with that completely.
Greg Packard, however, I think has the only one I might want to caveat on.
And he said time ticketing.
I think time ticketing done well can be a real benefit.
Yes. Can be a good thing. But a lot of haunts are not doing it well.
And I noticed this last year because we always try to buy tickets early.
We try to get the early bird sales when we can.
Yeah. If we know we're going to a haunt, we're going to try to get it as soon as we can.
One haunt locally, I think it was New Orleans Nightmare, sold us basically like one of those coupon code things.
You redeem for a free ticket at any time.
So whenever you wanted to redeem the ticket and pick your time, you could.

[7:58] Meanwhile, Mortuary, like middle of September, made me pick the day and time I'm coming to the Haunt.
Literally like three weeks out. I think it was August. Oh, it was over on...
Yeah, I think they go on sale in August. But seriously, it was at least weeks, oh, probably a month out.
It's asking me what day and what time I'm going. That is bullshit.
I'm sorry. Yeah, what if we're sick?
Yeah, what happens if my grandmother dies or something? I mean, they're all dead already. But, you know, what happens if something unexpected happens?
And I know a week before, but not a month before. It's so easy for that ticket to get wasted through no fault of the customer.
So, yeah, I think time ticketing done well could be a good trend.
Because it does reduce queue timelines. It does spread people out more evenly.
Also, the other issue with time ticketing is you've got to enforce the times. Yeah.

[8:53] Yeah, and I think maybe a hybrid thing could work where, you know, buy your time tickets for these times, and then, like, after the cutoff time, have it free-for-all where it's walk-on tickets. Oh, so basically do the Disney thing.
Oh. Where Disney, like, I don't know if it's still this way, but it used to be you could pick a time, like, the morning of or the day before.
You could pick two or three rides or something like that and say, I'm going to show up at this time and going straight on the ride.
And those are the rides you would rock up to, go into, and you wouldn't have to wait at any queue line or anything.
You would just basically walk on. And the only people you'd be waiting behind are other people who picked the exact same time. Yeah.
But if you wanted to go on the ride and you hadn't picked the time, you could get in the regular queue line and get the extra slots left over.
Exactly. And that's like a VIP system, but without having to pay a huge ticket upcharge.
Yeah, because I think the reason that the time ticketing breaks down is that haunts see that their numbers aren't doing as well as they thought they were going to, and then they open up the tickets for anybody walking up.
And they don't have a real contingency plan for what happens when someone shows up outside the window, either before or after.
Yeah. And there's no good process to handle it.
I think what you just described, and I think Disney used to do it that way.
I think they fucked it up because it's Disney.
So they, of course, have made everything worse since I heard about this.

[10:17] I literally watched a video that explained, by the way, that a trip to Disney for a family of four is more expensive than a trip to the French Riviera.
Yeah. That includes flights and everything.
That blew my mind, man. Like, I never thought, like, I'm a broke-ass motherfucker.
I never thought I'd be able to make it to the French Riviera, but I thought I might make it to Disney World someday.
Yeah. Apparently, I should be aiming for the French Riviera. Yeah. No shit, right?
Mm-hmm. So anyways, yeah, those are all great, great things there.
This week's question of the week, it's early, but I want everyone thinking about it. What is your big goal, your big swing for the 2024 Haunt season?
You've had a few months to think about it now. I know we asked this question, I think, toward the end of last year.
But now you've had a few months. Now you see what's going on.
And this will be a great one for after Transworld. Yeah.
Or while Transworld's going on. Because, yeah, it's going to be interesting to see what people are looking at as their big swing for 2024.

[11:17] On that note, I owe everyone an apology. This one is on me. We are late this week.
Yesterday, I had a sore throat. I still have a sore throat, but it's better today.
It wasn't really impacting my voice, but the idea of talking for an hour seemed A, dumb, and B, painful.
And, you know, I'm not the best at talking for an hour, so I can't just cover for you like you can cover for me sometimes.
Yeah. It was also raining like a metric fuckton outside. Yeah, and our quote-unquote studio is not really soundproof.
So you would have heard a...

[11:53] Now you just get to hear him imitating it. But it would have been over a whole episode. I can't do that for fucking 50 minutes.
Jesus Christ, lady. Now you really are trying to ruin my throat.
You know, to record it and just put it on repeat. See? No.
But the internet was also having issues because of it.
Yeah, so between those two things, we opted not to record yesterday.
I meant to post it last night, but A, as you noted, internet issues.
And B, when I got up this morning, motherfucking Facebook was down.
Literally from the time I got up until after lunch, I couldn't access it.
So what the fuck was that about? No idea. I'm really looking forward to the autopsy articles and videos that have got to be coming about this. Yeah.
Because Facebook being down an hour or hours plus in the hours territory is a wild thing to think about.
So I'm going to be looking forward to the what the fuck happened posts and videos that I'm sure are coming as soon as possible. I'm sure they're coming.

[12:56] Speaking of Transworld, good luck to everyone who is going.
We've seen a lot of our friends and so forth have already arrived in St.
Louis and have sent photos of the convention center and whatnot.
I'm hoping you all have a great Transworld. We will not be going this year.
Just was not in the cards for us in any regard. No.
But seriously, I hope you all have a good time. Looks like it's going to be a lot of fun.
Please check out all the great stuff and enjoy and have a great time and report back to us so we can live vicariously through your experience. Yeah. That is all we ask.

[13:31] You serve us your experience on the platter. Yes, and remember to write down or take a note of what you think the big thing is this year.
Because that will probably be coming up in a question. Yeah, we should change the question of the week.
Well, that's usually the week after. Yeah, we'll do that after.
Okay, we'll do that. That's a good point. Because that's what we did last year.
Yeah, I didn't think of that, but that's a good point. We should change that for us next week. Yeah. But yeah.
No, that is an excellent point, though. Yeah, let us know. And also, be sure if you're posting things on social media, do not forget to tag the vendors and the haunts that you are interacting with.
Be sure to tag and support them. A tag costs absolutely nothing and can do wonders for them.
It helps them out, and B, it helps you remember who you talked to and what they had.
So it's an easy way to make a list for yourself.
I remember last year when we went, I went through and I took one photo of every booth pretty much.
Yeah um not to post or anything not to post or anything just so i can remember who was there and what they had yeah and reference back to it and it ended up actually helping because there were a couple of times we were in facebook threads or whatever and someone's like hey who had blah blah blah and i'm like oh shit i got the photo of that and i would just dig around through my phone archives and find it so yeah it actually was useful it's one of the few times i've taken photos of stuff to remember and actually used it so that was pretty cool but yes enjoy trans world.

[14:59] Live vicariously for us. Please share with us all the wonderful things that happen.

[15:03] Yep. Finally, before we get into this week's topic, I want to have a quick word about the meme of the week, if you will.

[15:13] Because I've got to talk about this. Otherwise, I'm going to burst completely.
Specifically, I want to talk about Willy's Chocolate Experience, or as people are calling it, the Glasgow Willy Wonka event.
Yeah. I'm sure you have heard about it.
If you're listening to this podcast, I'm just going to assume you're on the internet.
And if I'm assuming you're on the internet, I'm assuming you've heard about this because it was fucking everywhere.
I mean, even mainstream media was covering this. The lamest of the mainstream media sites were covering this.
But basically, for those who don't know, all two of you, there was an event in Glasgow that was meant to be an immersive Willy Wonka experience.
I'm sorry, Willy Chocolate experience. We can get into that next week.

[15:57] And it ended in absolute disaster as these beautiful AI, or beautiful, I'm putting air quotes wrong, but these very elaborate AI images highlighted what's supposed to be this fantastical wonderland.
And it was basically an empty warehouse with a crooked photobot banner hanging up.
Yeah, but we'll get into it next week. But the main thing I want to do is talk about your homework this week, which is reframe what happened there with haunting.
Because one of the things we got to talking about whenever we stopped laughing at the sad oompa loompa and the unknown and the other very, very laughable stuff, by the way. So it took us several days to have this realization.
Yeah. Was that we had a similar level of disappointment with haunts before.
And we've read reviews of haunts and not gone to them because people would go to them expecting one thing and then get something subpar yeah you know basically making sure that your haunt lives up to the hype that you create and has the things that you promote in it like one a good example is you would think willie's chocolate experience would have fucking chocolate.

[17:06] Well, you know. Just saying.
Yeah, no. No, it did not. It had two jelly beans and a quarter cup of limonene for the little bastards.
Showed up. Once again, more next week, more next week.
But seriously, I want everyone thinking about this in terms of haunting and how some haunts, not most haunts luckily, some haunts though have really overhyped themselves and then just really failed to deliver on that hype in any way, shape, or form.
And what that does to our industry as a whole, because people who have not been to other haunts or rarely go to haunts are going to see that and think that's what all haunts do.
And they're going to tell their friends that's what haunts do.
We're supposed to be in the business of defying expectations, but not defying the expectations in our own marketing.
That's different. That's called lying.
We're supposed to be using people's instinctual expectations.
Right. Not, you know, not the literal shit we put in the advertisements and brochures.
So just, I want everyone thinking about it. I'm laying some groundwork for next week. We're going to talk about it more because Jesus Christ, we have to.

[18:17] But seriously, it is a wild story.
If you haven't looked it up, if you haven't heard about it, please do Google the Glasgow Willy Wonka event.
Look up about it and enjoy the memes and, yeah, enjoy the laugh.
But do remember, A, there were real victims in terms of the people who bought tickets to it.
Right. And the actors were also victims, too, because they had not been paid in full and they were lied to about what they would be doing and what the event was going to be as well. they're as big victims, if not bigger victims, than the people who bought tickets.
So please remember that and keep that in your head.
Yes. And if you find a really good meme that isn't absolutely everywhere, feel free to send it to us.
Yeah, feel free to drop it at Haunt Weekly on the various platforms.
Yeah, please do. Well, okay.

Negative Haunt Trends

[19:04] Now that we're done with all that, we're about 20 minutes into the episode, we can get to our topic of the week, which is the past two weeks we've talked about haunt trends that we hoped would die.
Two weeks ago we listed some of ours, then we asked you what yours were, and you all came through with such spades that we basically decided we had to do a commenter edition, so we did.
But now after doing two episodes about the negative stuff, we wanted to get more positive.
We wanted to talk about the hot trends that we are seeing, at least to some degree.
Some of these we're not seeing in huge amounts, but we're seeing in some degree that we want to see grow. And part of this is...

[19:43] You know, spurred on by your comments, you know, by your answers to what you want to see.
You know, that's really the inspiration behind this.
But we had a lot to say on it, too. Yeah, we had some different answers than y'all. And that's half the fun, right? Yeah.
So, anyways, Crystal, you want to take the first one? Since you wrote it.

Unique Gift Shops

[20:03] And it's odd. Yeah. All right. More unique gifts and gift shops.
We've talked about this before, but in the past few years, we're actually seeing it. Every trip that we go on, we find at least one haunt that has something unique in the gift shop.
And I'm really, really glad for that. Or is doing something unique with saleable items near it.

[20:24] And that's been very true. And some of it's been very creative in how it's done.
Sometimes, like I remember Hell's Gate just had a really great gift shop built in.
Yeah. And theirs was probably the first one that got me thinking about this in general.
Yeah. Like, theirs was the first one that had basically an oddities market.
Lots of things with bones and in addition to the t-shirts and stuff.
But then I remember, like, going to Atlanta and running into that haunt where they basically let vendors set up.
They found interesting vendors from around the area. And I don't know what arrangement they had.
Yeah. But there were all these artists there who make a wide, some of them made, like, headdress things. Some of them made, like, jewelry.
Yarn. And some made yarn-related things. It was actually really interesting to see these different artists still somewhat connected to Wanted Trash.
They were doing gothier stuff in general or witchier stuff.
Yeah, they were dark artists. Yeah.

[21:25] The dark art market is a term that's used locally. At least around here, yeah.
And that's basically what they did was set up one of those outside.
Side and um we've seen that now in houston and and where was our last trip uh the last big trip we did was to biloxi but that was okay yeah we saw it there at the trail haunt oh yeah that's right yeah they had like three little artists set up along the um yeah you're right so yeah we're seeing multiple approaches to doing this but the idea once again and this i think sort of fits into to the broader issue that we were talking about earlier with the Midway, Of giving people reasons to come that go beyond the haunted attraction.
Yes. And giving them something to do either after they're done with the haunt or if they don't want to go to the haunt.
That way they're not just standing around in the parking lot for however long it takes for their friends and their family to go through.

[22:22] Right. That's what you want to avoid. Yeah. And art markets are a big draw on their own.
Yeah. Like they will bring people in and have following.
And if you've got one that sets up, you know, on a monthly basis in your area, find out who's running it and get in touch with that person because they can have one set up in your parking lot in no time. Yeah, they've already got the contacts.
Yeah. And they can, you know, bring vendors, the same vendor.
They got the vendor contacts. They got everything they need.
And, yeah, it can be, it may not be the biggest boon monetarily to do that, right?
You can still sell the space and the tables and the access.
You could charge some fee for that. but in general you know we've been seeing this grow where the the things you can buy at haunted attractions have been getting better and better and better and in general we've seen fewer and fewer places where it's like here's our t-shirt here's our hat that's all we have yeah get a bumper sticker yeah now i understand that if you're new and just starting out you know it takes a little while to to get that but yeah the dark art market is actually a good idea for for that because Because it also brings in that built-in audience who's already looking for spooky things.
And the other issue that might prevent you from doing it is space, ultimately.
Yeah. Like Mortuary, we talk about their lack of space. They're hemmed in on a very tiny lot. Yeah. Without a lot of place. They have a...

[23:48] Merch-ish booth that's built into the queue line very awkwardly. Yeah.
I bet they could set up vendors in front at those steps. In front where the VIPs go through.
I'm sure they could think of something, but there's still just not a lot of space there.
And I understand their struggles in trying to do more.
Oh, yeah. but if you've got land and space you're not using, this seems like an easy swing for me, especially if you're trying to draw people in that aren't your normal haunt audience.
It just seems like an easy one, and we've been seeing more of it, like we said. Let's see it continue to grow.

Seasonal Events Rising

[24:27] Speaking of growing things, more seasonal events.

[24:33] The number of haunts that are doing Christmas slash holiday events has definitely gone up, Yes. But it's also been going well past that.
I mean, okay, yeah, I'm still not sure about St. Patrick's Day.
I'm getting alerts about St. Patrick's Day events, and that makes me awkward.
There are Easter ones, too, that I'm sure are going to come up. I'm unsure about those.
But recently we have seen haunts doing halfway to Halloween and during the summer, which is a great idea if your haunt caters to a lot of school-aged people. Right.
We've also seen recently a spring break haunt. Yep. Oh yeah, that's right, we have. And that covers St.
Patrick's and Easter, so without being a St. Patrick's or an Easter haunt.
Yeah, I'm sure you can think of a spring break pun that wouldn't go well with it. I think that's a great idea.
We also saw for the first time ever this year a Mardi Gras theme going in Lafayette. Yeah. Yeah.
Which raises so many fucking questions. Yeah.
Not in Mobile, which claims to have the first Mardi Gras and has that whole stick up their ass about that.
Not in New Orleans, the place famous for Mardi Gras. Not in Southeast Louisiana, Cajun land.
Not in Southwest Louisiana, no. Cajun land, where it has the very, very weird Mardi Gras, I will say.
Yeah. Look up Cajun Mardi Gras sometime on your own. You can do that on your own time. Yeah, those costumes are... Terrifying. Yes.

[25:59] Honestly, if you're going to do a haunted attraction theme on Mardi Gras, Cajun Mardi Gras is where you fucking start.
Yeah. That is the alpha and the omega of that, I think.
In fact, our friend Kyle did Cajun Mardi Gras once.
And yes, did Cajun Mardi Gras is the correct term for this because it is something you do.
And took photos of it. And it's literally because one of the things that was really great was like he's dead now. He's just in New York now.
One of the things that's really great. He's in California. I was in California when he moved again.
Yes. I keep forgetting. But anyways, yeah, he's not dead. He just left New Orleans.
Boo. He was actually one of our guests in one of our first episodes. Yes, he was.
Anyways, yeah, but one of the things that was great about him is he's a very, very well-traveled individual, including a road trip to Alaska and all this crazy stuff he's done.
He stayed in the Clown Motel that's so famous.
Did all that shit. He did a whole bunch of crazy, creepy stuff.
I think the photos from Cajun and Marty were the most disturbing ones he ever posted.
Yes. And he bought a costume. And he bought a costume, yeah.
Because if you go, you can buy one of the costumes.
It's very expensive, but it's worth it. I think his was a pig man. Yeah, it's...
Look up Cajun Mardi Gras. We might have to do an episode about this at some point because it's very, very unsettling.
But, yes, we have seen a Mardi Gras haunt run now, like I said, in Lafayette.
It's just da-da-da-da-da. Whatever.

[27:24] And we've also seen a New Year's haunt recently. And so many Valentines.
Yeah, Valentines and Christmas are like the give-me's. They're like the free space on the bingo card here.
Yeah. But I'm glad to see some of these others because there's definitely a need for more year-round events.
And to be clear, these events need to be actual full shows, and they need to be distinct enough from the regular show to justify going to it again.
You know, you can't just put elf costumes on the monsters and hang up a few Christmas lights.
You've got to come up with something new, which is something that I know our friend in Houma did very well.
Yes, at Decomposed. At Decomposed, goddammit.
I'm like, what's the D word? What's the D word? And then it's because I don't know why I couldn't come up with decompose in a moment. I kept saying demolished in my head.
What do you know about decomposition? In its own way.
It's kind of a synonym if you have no idea what words mean.

[28:20] I think it's just because you're still trying to get over the cold.
Probably. My brain is clearly not at 100%. I will acknowledge that.
But yeah, no, I'm very, very happy to see this. I think there's a lot more opportunities here. And we've been talking, of course, about Darkwoods and their year-round events they have that aren't necessarily connected to haunt, but use the property year-round.
So, yeah, all kinds of great things here. Hope that continues.
Yes. More inclusive, specific events is another one that I would like to see grow because we've reported on haunts holding accessible nights where, you know, there's less noise or no noise.
Flashing lights are turned off. kids events, there's even been a couple of events for visually impaired visually impaired sensory disorders too yeah this has been wild and incredible that was one of the things that was mentioned by you all was the need to not just do ADA compliance ADA compliance is the law all, A, for most haunts, and B, it's kind of the bare minimum in that you're catering to people with physical, a very specific group of physical disabilities in particular.

[29:42] Catering to people who have autism, who have sensory disorders, who are, you know, blind.
And in this case, these are more difficult and they require more thought.
But it's really great that haunts have been trying to find ways to do it.
And in many cases, pairing with local organizations to find out how to do it well.
Yeah. And I think that's really, really great. I know one haunt, for example, did the one for people with sensory issues.
And they actually reached out to a local school right local group and said hey how can we make our haunt approachable for one night i know most nights it's not going to be how do we change it for one night and they listened to the guidance and a i'm sure they learned a lot of stuff and b those kids seem to have a really great night yeah have a great time the photos from it were incredible yeah they were all smiling and laughing and that's what we like to see when Yeah, smiles on people's faces is what this industry is ultimately supposed to be about people.
Let's not forget that. I know we share the screaming running videos, but on the other side of that, there's joy.
Hopefully when the screaming and running stops, it ends in laughter and smiles.
Yes. You know, that's the goal.
That's supposed to be the goal here. I think this is incredible.
And yeah, it's been a good thing to see build up over time. Hope to see more of it.

[30:59] Okay. Okay, this one's going to be controversial, because in a way it sounds like I'm talking about something that is bad for the haunt industry.

Haunts with Fewer Actors

[31:06] But I think in the long run, this is going to be very good.
And that is haunts being built and learning to run well with fewer actors.
Now, to be clear, I don't like the idea of there being fewer haunters.
That part sucks. We want more haunters. We want all the haunters.
But the simple truth is this. Labor costs are rising. And we're seeing haunts pivot to use fewer actors, but give those actors more and better opportunities to interact.

[31:36] So this has had two effects. Since we're not trying to stuff haunts with all the warm bodies we can, the better actors are getting the gigs.
And they're getting more face time and more front time with the customers.
But also, haunts are having to be designed with actors in mind to give them all those points of contact.
Because one of the things that's always frustrating me about haunts and a lot of haunts are guilty of this is they will build the haunt with room room room room room room and basically you go through scene to scene to scene and oh how's the scare going to work i don't know we'll just throw bodies at it yeah well now that bodies are more scares.

[32:17] And they're more scarce because, A, like I said, labor costs are going up.
But even if you're a charity haunt or a home haunt that doesn't pay and has only volunteer actors, it's getting more difficult to find people because, once again, there's more money to be made going to other haunts.
Yeah. I mean, we've never lost an actor to another charity haunt or another home haunt.
We've lost several who went and did pro work at one of the other haunts in the area. And mind you, that is not an objection.
That is not a complaint. point that is not a knock on any of them no but that's just saying that's one of the reasons haunts that can't or don't pay are going to struggle is because there's more opportunities for those who want to haunt to both haunt and make a little money at it right and it's also you know the labor shortages of the usual uh where people just have day jobs and they're tired at the the end of the night and they need to make sure that they are doing what's best for them.
They have day jobs. They have families. People got shit going on.
No. And yeah, that's 100% true.
So yeah, we're seeing haunts having to adapt to having fewer actors.
And what that is doing is I think forcing haunts to think about actors from very early in the design phase.

[33:38] That's starting to see some of our tricks being used in other haunts and in professional haunts and it makes me smile because you know the idea of actor runs where you have multiple points of contact with the same group making sure groups are spaced in such a way that that actor can get those two or three scares at one point and if you want to see who's the real master of this go to year-round haunts yeah like the one we did in galveston um the one we did in austin that run with just one or two actors constantly and see how they manage to get scare after scare after scare after scare with so few bodies um it's it's very impressive from a design standpoint it doesn't always result in the best customer experience when they have that few but it's still very impressive and i I think a lot of haunts have figured out that they can get by with fewer actors as long as they're smarter about how they use them.
Right. And I think we're getting past the, we will throw an army of zombies at the problem.
Yeah. Which I think could help the industry in the long term. Yeah.
Well, you know, that's something that I would like to see in general would be better haunt designed, more thought put into it specifically for that.
And just for, you know.

[34:59] Building for not only the scare, but also for actor comfort and ease.
Yeah, exactly. Because that's not something that's often thought of either.
And I think that's sort of being forced now. Because like I said, we're past the point where we're just using mob tactics.
And that's a good thing, I think. In the long run, it's going to be a good thing.
Moving on. More small haunt vendors. And what I mean is the people who sell things to haunted houses and to homeowners and charity haunts.
These feel homemade. They're usually exclusive props, meaning they only have one to five of them ever, and costumes.

[35:42] So you get a very unique feel to what you're putting in your haunt.
It also makes it, like I said, accessible to tiers of all haunts. Yeah.
Yeah. That's one. And you're absolutely right. We've been it used to be like there were a handful of large companies out there that really dominated the industry.
They could charge whatever they wanted. Right.
And they did. Yes.
And now I think we're seeing I think we're seeing the high end products come down some in price, but we're seeing and we talked about this recently.
There's a tier below the high tier, but below like the regular consumer tier.
I call it prosumer, but you seem to think prosumer is too low.
But it's still in between those two things is the main point.
And that tier is what's filling out and is what is making this approachable to either high-end home haunters or to low-end pro haunts slash charity haunts.
And I think that's going to be something that we see continue to grow because that's a niche that's been in desperate need of fulfillment for some time.
Yeah. And if you're at Transworld this year, tell me how many of these you see because I saw a few last year and I didn't leave the booth often.
Yeah. I saw some last year, too. I mean, we all know the big names in the industry.
Yeah. And there's not knocking them. Well, OK, there's knocking one of them, but we all know who that is. Yeah.

[37:04] We're not going into that in this episode. No, no. No, and usually if you, because the way Transworld works, the big companies have had their booths set for years, like their placement.
So if you're a new company, you're going to be closer to the food in the Christmas section.
Toward the, whatever the fuck the escape room section is now.
Yeah. Whatever that is. If you walk in the front and you turn right and go all the way to the right and make your way back to the big guys, then you'll probably hit all of the new companies first. Yeah.

[37:39] And like I said, one of the things that was near where we were with Conjured Media, one of the things that was near us...
Was that escape room puzzle team. Right. Where they were doing, like, lobby things.
Yeah. Like, not necessarily full escape rooms. They were doing these mini escape games meant to be played in a queue line or in the lobby of an escape room or something like that.
And it was really interesting to see these games. And I could definitely see.
And also, the people that made the special custom panels.
Right. They won one of the show awards.
Yeah. And Christian Restaud, who listens to the podcast, podcast was there with his new company and they're selling stuff to sell in your merch booths yeah and your gift shops yeah there were a lot of very interesting uh new companies there and i'm hoping that's true again this year um because yeah there's there's a definite need for more small to mid-size haunt vendors yep all right this one's been huge for me but the better tutorials and and guides.

Better Tutorials & Guides

[38:42] Oh my god, just in the time that I've been haunting, this has improved so much.
And because the thing I was thinking about this, 2005 was a big year, because that's the year we opened Bernie Baxter, Hurricane Katrina happened this year, those two things are related, I launched Plagiarism Today, and YouTube launched in the same year. Yeah.
All those things happened in 2005. 2005 was like the year for all everything, just chaos.

[39:08] But anyways, YouTube has been a godsend for haunters.
There's so many guides and tutorials whether you want to do a display haunt, a home haunt, pro haunt, charity haunt, whatever you want to do, there are tutorials you can learn there.
What I would like to see and where I would like to see growth and effort is in the more basic tutorials.
If you want to learn how to corpse a skeleton in a very specific way and get this done, you can learn that on YouTube very well.
But I'm sure there is a video or two, but learning basic panel construction might not be something you find as readily.
Learning basic panel construction, learning why you want to use wood walls, even if it's small, thin wood walls.
It's better than tarp walls. Just trust me on this.
If you plan on doing this multiple years, especially. Yeah.
The best way to quickly make a corpse or a body.

[40:02] Yep. If you want to put it, you know, on the floor or something.
Something uh i i personally like stuffing the uh the painter's suits that have the hood on them yeah and and it's great because if you have a plastic head or something you can shove it into the hood yeah it will stay very well actually and that way it's got an actual face too yeah it gives it a bit of realism uh and even like a little bit exposed it's kind of cool exactly and the uh And you can usually go by, like, barber schools and ask them for their cut hair mannequin heads.
And they'll sell them to you real cheap, if not just give them to you.
Yeah, and that fails wig shops.
Yeah. Are also great for that. But, yeah, the one thing I would like to see growth, though, is more mid-tier tutorials.
Like, okay, you understand the very, very basics. Yeah. Here's some thoughts on how to pull it all together.
Feather um they're basically this is such an improvement from where the haunt industry was pre them though yeah because it was a very secretive you had to know someone who knew someone to learn how to do even fundamental things right nobody wanted to share information that has changed a lot but there are still gaps on the ladder i want to see those gaps get filled in with more tutorials and i think that's being done slowly but i think it's going to um improve crew with time.
That's just, I'm so, this is like one of the changes I've seen in the haunt industry the last 20 years that keeps me hopeful at night. Yeah.

[41:29] Right. Inclusiveness inside of your haunt. Talked about it outside, now inside.

Inclusive Haunt Communities

[41:35] If you want to build a more diverse community inside of your haunt, you have to reach out specifically to communities that aren't represented in your haunt.
You have to intentionally, with intention, do your recruitment. Yep.
Look for magazines, look for events that are in communities.
That aren't represented.
This is usually LGBTQ plus and BIPOC communities.

[42:05] Go and reach out because people are not going to assume that you're a safe space.
You have to get the word out that you are. And one of the things, well, he sat down with my friend, Patrick O'Keefe, who runs community management.
One of the great comments he said, and I've been thinking about, I think about this constantly now, written free in my head, is that he said, your community at large is going to look like the people who run it. Yeah.
If you want more of a certain group of people, have those people in your management and you will find they will show up and gravitate toward it.
Yes. And if you don't have people who are eligible for management roles in your haunt, then maybe reach out to the local economic development association, and work with them to develop mentorship programs where they can start at a low level management but position learn the ropes and then climb up the ranks yeah.

[43:04] If you promote that you're doing this intentionally and you're, you know, wanting these mentoring programs to lead to greater success, then that's going to be huge for your community boost.
And that's one of the things we talked about how haunts are struggling to find people, haunts are struggling to keep staff.
You can't really complain about it if you're not trying to cast as wide of a net as practical and possible with the types of people you're recruiting.
Yeah. And so I would definitely agree. there's something to focus on and it's been getting better you're right it is a trend, it is it is i'm starting to see you know more communities represented represented at conferences and things and online too um and i would also something that i'd like to see more of, is put your you know more explicitly lgbtq plus and bipoc characters in your marketing materials Yeah, good point.
Very good point. Because that's going to help people know that you're a safe space, too.
If you're willing to put money behind it and put it out there for your promotional materials, people are going to know I can come to you. Yeah, great.
Well, our final one right now, I'm sure we could have thought of it because we were having so much fun ping-ponging these back and forth.
We could have gone all night. Yeah.

Haunts & Press Coverage

[44:26] But one I wanted to talk about as an advertising guy, as that promotional guy, is I've been noticing, especially when we compile our news episodes, that haunts are getting way, way more press coverage than they used to just a few years ago.
You know, we're episode, what, 430? You know, 430 and change? Yeah.
We do 52 episodes a year. We're getting nearer 10 years on this.

[44:52] I remember when we first started, I almost saw no positive haunt coverage in news about haunted attractions.
Now I am seeing it constantly. In fact, it's actually becoming a problem when we try to compile news episodes.

[45:08] So, yes, sometimes it's been a bit of a frustration. I'm not going to lie.
But I'm very happy to see it.
Because basically I've been noticing that haunts have been doing better at PR, been doing better outreach to media, and are getting those mentions.
Basically, they're not, because the fear is that social media is so prevalent, there's this mentality that that is where the kids are, quote-unquote, that's where our customers are, so we're just going to put all the eggs in the social media basket.
No, taking the time to do press releases, to do outreach, to get these media mentions can and do help.
And it's always funny every year we get a mention especially when we're on tv locally, several people will come up to us oh yeah yeah you're the two that were on the tv i saw you run that little haunt thing right and they know and they bring their kids to it when they might not otherwise have because the thing is like yeah okay the cool kids may not be reading the newspaper or you know watching local television but their parents probably are the people who have the actual fucking money in the house too yeah so yeah it's something to think about but uh yeah so basically getting out there getting press attention is a positive thing and it's basically a form of community outreach too it's getting you in front of the community in a way that's very important and i've been seeing haunts to a much better mix of advertising and pr i want to see that continue.

[46:32] I want to see that continue to grow. I want to be pissed off every four weeks that I'm inundated with press release stories by haunts doing awesome things that aren't really what the news episodes meant for.
Yeah. And basically, if it's an awesome thing, like it's a community-focused thing, we're going to cover it.
But if it's just... We're reopening for St. Patrick's Day or whatever.
That's not really what this podcast is about. Yeah. Yeah, like that would have been the entire episode in February. Oh my God.
The Valentine's Day ones. So many.
I get a news alert from Google every day for haunted attraction news.
It's one of the ways we fill our news episodes.
And then I take the ones that are relevant and I drop them in a chat we have just for those links.
Primarily for those links, I should say.
And I swear to fucking shit. in the weeks running up to Valentine's Day.

[47:31] The Google alert was completely full. It only showed the top 10 or 12, something like that, stories.
And then it was like, there are more alerts. Click here to see all the alerts.
Click all the alerts, and it's just full of haunts, getting great press mentions and getting lots of love from local media.
So while I'm very happy about that, it's just Jesus Christ, finding news episodes gets hard sometimes.
Times yeah right around holidays um right on valentine's day christmas it's a problem obviously in the run-up the haunt season itself it's a difficulty though usually then there's enough other news um that it's not as big of a problem but yeah so i it's it's it's a frustration and i will go back tomorrow to endlessly bitching about it but it's a happy bitching okay i'm a a happy complainer you understand yeah i'm happy.

[48:25] I'm just pissed. Well, on that note, everyone, that's all we have.
You got anything else to add on final thoughts?
I didn't think so, because I didn't. Because I didn't either.
Well, on that note, everyone, thank you very much for spending the past 50 or so minutes with us. Greatly appreciate it. Thank you for your patience with us being late this week.
I am feeling better, but not that you knew I was sick, because of fucking Facebook and the internet being down.
I swear to shit, these past 48 hours have been just wild.
But anyways, please do check out more Haunt Weekly. We're available at hauntweekly.com, hauntweekly on Twitter, hauntweekly on Facebook, and youtube.com slash hauntweekly.
That's where every episode in the past is available, ready for your easy access.

[49:09] If that's not your thing, we're wherever podcasts are distributed. That's all I'm saying.
But until next time, I'm Jonathan. I'm Crystal. And next week is episode 432, that's divisible by four.
It means it's time to do... The News. news we will see you all then and hopefully it won't be all saint patrick's day haunt news articles in the goddamn google alert told you i was gonna go back to complaining about it see you then.