Haunt Weekly - Episode 437 - McKamey Manor Lawsuits

Transcript

[0:22]

Introduction

[0:23]

Hello, everyone. I'm Jonathan. I'm Crystal. And this is Haunt Weekly,

a weekly podcast for the haunted attraction, haunted entertainment community.

Whether you're an actor, owner, or just plain aficionado, we aim to be a podcast for you.

And we come to you this week with what has been one of the most research-intensive

podcasts we've had in a long time.

Yeah, and that's part of the reason it's late. It is actually a legitimate part

of the reason it's late. The other part, though, is we'll get into it in a minute. Yes, we will.

But today we're We're going to be talking about two recent lawsuits filed by

Russ McCamey of McCamey Manor fame.

And it's important to note it's Russ McCamey filing the lawsuits for reasons

we'll get into later as well.

But yes, basically, we'll be talking about those lawsuits, breaking down what

he is suing for, some thoughts on it, some generalizations, basically a lot

that's going on in this episode.

But if you don't want to hear us talk about that, and I do not fucking blame you.

No, I would skip this one if I could.

Yes, I would too, honestly, but I felt like, well, we'll get into why.

But anyways, if you want to skip this one, please feel free.

There's plenty of other Haunt Weekly out there, 300 and 436 other episodes.

That's not even counting the guest spots we did on other podcasts. Yeah, I know.

So please check out all of our stuff at HauntWeekly.com, Haunt Weekly on Twitter,

Haunt Weekly on Facebook, and YouTube.com slash Haunt Weekly.

Please check us out there, and if you don't want to do this podcast,

I do not blame you. you have an easy out and permission to skip from me.

[1:51]

Because everybody needs that. Everyone needs that.

We're giving you complete permission to still be a Supreme Haunt Weekly fan and skip this episode.

Yeah. Totally cool. Totally understand.

[2:03]

So real fast, we didn't do any work for the Haunt this weekend because taxes.

Yeah. The other reason the show's late.

That was the main part of it. I also did some extra work and had to do a lot

of recording into a microphone over the past week.

Yeah, you've been doing voiceover work. You've got a new career as a voiceover

artist for very boring videos, apparently, by your own admission.

We won't get into the details of what you're doing, but yes,

you have spent probably more time this past week talking into a microphone than

last year for Haunt Weekly.

I would agree with that, because I don't have to talk the entire time here.

No, you talk, we'll say 50-50, we'll say 30 minutes a week on average.

Yeah. Probably a little bit less, because I'm the more outgoing one.

[2:52]

But no, so yeah, we'll say that. Yeah, you probably have talked more into a

microphone this past week than you have in the past year.

So anyways, on that note, we didn't get a chance to get out there. We had plans.

We're normally not that bad of procrastinators on our taxes.

Taxes, but we were this year, but also in my defense, there was a change in

the law that I was unprepared for that because they literally changed it after the tax year ended.

So I'm a little pissed about that stuff. Just a little bit.

A little salt, a little salt on the keyboard here as we talk about this.

So let's move on. Let's get to something happier. What do you say?

Okay. Like our question of the week. And last week's question of the week was we asked you,

how do you celebrate halfway to halloween and well

there you go right isaac schwaller

said i have never really celebrated halfway to halloween sadly we celebrate

by working to get the haunt ready for season lol is that a celebration it is

yeah sam farrell said working on my haunt the same thing basically still trying

to get my employer to recognize it as a personal religious holiday Yeah,

I tried to do that too occasionally and still had to take holiday or vacation

day and just call it a holiday.

Amanda Revenge said, getting married. Congratulations.

[4:17]

That's kind of a cheat code for this thing. I don't know. I hope you're not doing that every year.

Yeah, if you're doing that every year, it might be a problem. Well, I don't know.

Polly life. That's true. or just renewing your vows every year or something.

It could be something sweet. Yeah.

All right. Reggie Wood says, starting work on The Haunt when the vacation is over. Yes, definitely.

Daryl Plonky said, I only scare half the people I meet. Teach me how to do that.

I usually scare them all.

Yeah. Tim Fowler, we set up a display at the Spooky Swap Meet,

one of the many conferences we hype on event episodes. Yes.

So, yeah, that's an extreme. One of the best. And he says, one of the best events of the year.

James Thurman said Walpurgisnacht I'm sorry,

Walpurgisnacht I looked up the pronunciation and I listened to it because that's

what I've had to do for the words and the thing that I recorded I'd always heard

of Walpurgisnacht I think there may be a.

[5:20]

Englishification of that I'd always heard of Walpurgisnacht Well you gave it

to me because I was like fuck Fuck, you put it on an odd... I did not.

Okay, because I did so much research on this one, I literally just copied and

pasted the comments from Facebook. I know, I'm just teasing you.

Normally we do a lot of editing and regrouping of these, not this time around.

Paul Hoover, half a bag of candy and a half-finished costume. Just kidding.

[5:46]

Locally, our minor league baseball team has four special game events,

including a Ghostbustin' Night and a Halloween at the Ballpark Night. That sounds fun.

It does. I wish our ballpark would do that. I wish our ballpark had a team.

[6:01]

Yeah, that's why I paused. I'm like, wait a minute. We don't even have a team anymore.

We got fucked, man. We have gay softball. They should do it.

Yeah, they should do it. But yeah, the Shrine on Airline does not have a team anymore.

Halfway to Halloween Expo running event called Halfway to Halloween.

I mean, there it is. End of the fucking name. Yeah. Just saying.

And then we've also talked about them in the conference reminders.

Um, and finally, Lost Souls Haunted Bus Tour, the Halfway to Hello Queen Party,

which we've been seeing lots about, the upcoming charity event for Haunters

Against Hate. Yes, I would love to go to that.

I would love to go to that too, but I don't think it's practical right now.

Yeah, Chicago just seems to get, be getting more awesome. Well,

yeah, but now that Paul moved there, I mean.

Well, and there's other people that I know that are moving there too,

and it just was like, that's where all the haunters are going.

It's becoming a haunt magnet city, and I think that's because of the very excellent

haunt community there, just in general. So, yeah.

Lost Souls is one of the sponsors and hosts of the Halfway to Halloween Halloween

Party. It's going to be awesome.

This week's question of the week, which we'll tie directly into this episode,

is what is your biggest legal fear?

[7:17]

Yes. Especially when it comes to haunting. Let us know.

Hauntweekly.com, Hauntweekly on Twitter, Hauntweekly on Facebook and YouTube.com. slash hauntweekly.

[7:28]

Well, now we killed about eight minutes. Well, are we going to talk about ours?

Oh, yeah. Well, I guess we should. We should kill another couple minutes that

way. Yeah. Honestly, I mean, the biggest for me is always worrying about someone getting hurt.

Yeah. Although we haven't had any injuries. No. No, we've never had...

No serious ones for anybody building or going through. No.

You know, most... I mean, as far as like visitors to the haunt,

we've never even had to bust out the first aid kit.

Now, there have been a few times I was really surprised someone wasn't injured.

Yeah, I'm sure they felt it the next day. Yeah, you don't smash a two-by-four

with your shoulder, get up, and run away.

[8:06]

Basically, Scooby-Doo'd that whole thing. Yeah. Without, the next day,

having a busted-up shoulder.

I bet it was at least badly bruised. Yeah.

I mean, honestly, that was impressive. Like I said, there was a kid that got

dropped that inspired the no-carry-shoulder rule.

That was scary. Yeah. Because kids sound like fucking wet cement when they hit. That's just wrong.

Yeah. It's a horrible sound. It is.

And obviously we've had a few people fall down, crash into walls.

There's a reason why we try to build everything to take a thousand pounds of hit.

Yeah, there is. And I think for my answer, I'm going to go with the city deciding

to shut us down for some reason or give us a fine or something.

Yeah, honestly, I think we're at the point where we're well enough known that

if the city were going to take any action, they would have.

[8:55]

I would hope so. Also, like, it hasn't been a few for a little while,

but still, every time, like, that year that the fire truck showed up.

Oh, God, I'll never forget that.

Like, we all pooped a little. We all pooped a little. It was a little poop in

everyone's pants that night. But you know what? The fire department was actually great.

They were. And our visitors were very kind. They let us get the firefighters

through because they had to get back to doing firefighter stuff.

Totally understand. So we allowed them to skip the line. The first,

I think, only time we've ever done that, really. Really?

Yes. But everyone was super cool about it. And we appreciate them,

our visitors being cool about it.

So, yeah, but you're right. We pooped just a little bit when that happened.

And they seem to have a really good time. And apparently we scared the chief.

[9:37]

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My dad scared him and he loves that he scared him so much.

Yeah. Apparently got him. So, you know, that was pretty awesome.

It went from being we pooped our pants a little too. Hey, this is awesome. them. Yeah.

[9:51]

Like that. So yeah, what is your greatest legal fear? Let us know.

All the places I've listed. I'm not doing it again.

No. Because we do have to get to this week's main topic, and we want to do a

bunch of disclaimers before we get into this. Oh my god.

This episode's like half disclaimers. Yeah. I wish I were joking.

First things first, we hate talking about McKamey Manor. Yes.

I hate giving oxygen to this.

I hate giving time to this. I hate giving brain cycles to this.

Yes. I hate everything about this episode. Which is why, like I said,

you have total permission to turn it off now and do something else with your life.

I will not be offended in the least. We won't even know.

We won't even know. Don't care. You can even tell me to my face you skipped

it. I'll just go, good for you.

You made the right choice. You made the choice that Spec Ops line was trying

to get people to make, was to just not play. Yeah.

It's... McKamey Manor is not a haunted house. No. It violates the rules of consent. It is a scam.

Yes. It was. All this should be... Probably should be putting it past tense now. Yeah. But, yeah.

But there are two realities here that we cannot ignore.

First, as much as it irritates me and as much as I'm confused by it,

it dominates media coverage.

It does get a lot of media attention. And second...

[11:10]

We are kind of the law slash legal people in the haunt community,

at least the haunt podcasting community in many, many ways.

So we talked about it. We went back and forth over it. We both have a little

bit of background in the legal field.

And you bring our forces together. We have a halfway decent understanding.

[11:32]

But, yeah, we talked about it. We discussed it. And honestly,

we just reached the conclusion that we needed to actually discuss these lawsuits

because this could be something that has knock-on effects in the industry down the road.

Yeah. In particular, the first lawsuit, which, like I said, we're going to get into it in a minute.

So we felt the need to talk about it. But, yeah, there's disclaimers here beyond that.

So, yeah, first disclaimer, we hate talking about McKinney Manor.

We hate it as much as you do. We're not happy to be here. We're doing it out

of a sense of obligation. Basically, we're taking one for the team.

That's the way I'm looking at it. But yeah, disclaimers beyond that. First, disclaimer one.

Neither of us are lawyers. Correct. Nothing in this is legal advice.

You shouldn't get legal advice from a podcast anyways, even if it's run by lawyers.

Probably not, because they don't know you or your specific things.

Yeah. Like, you probably shouldn't be... And they have no duty to you from a

podcast. Exactly. Exactly.

So, we're legally knowledgeable, but not lawyers. If you try to sue us or try

to poo-poo us in any way for giving you bad legal advice, we will laugh at you,

we will laugh at your children, and we will laugh at your grandchildren.

We will give three generations of shame unto your house for being a fucking moron.

[12:53]

Because, again, we're not lawyers. This is not legal advice.

And you shouldn't get legal advice from a podcast, even if we were lawyers.

So, getting that out there and getting that aggressively out there.

Yes. Second, this is not either of our area of expertise.

I do work in the legal field. I am an expert witness. Once again, not a lawyer.

I'm an expert witness, but I am in the plagiarism, copyright,

and IP space with some First Amendment law and journalism law in general,

which does come into play, but it's not the focus here.

So, yeah, I'm not an expert on, you know, this Computer Fraud and Abuse Act,

the 5th, 4th, 1st, well, I'm more familiar with the 1st Amendment,

but 4th and 5th Amendment, I don't know. I had to look up which amendments those were.

Well, actually, no, I didn't have to look up the 5th because Dave Chappelle

made sure I would always remember which one is the 5th.

[13:47]

Thank you, Dave Chappelle, for making sure I remember that one until my dying

days. So, yes, please take everything with an additional pound of salt because of that.

And third, and this is a weird one, we have not seen the documentary at the center of a lot of this.

No, because we talked to people who had seen it, trusted friends,

people that we know personally.

They watched it. They said, yeah, you don't need to watch it.

And it's kind of funny, because the reason they said not to watch it was because

they said it was just more pro-McCamey hype bullshit, basically.

Which makes what's coming later fucking hilarious.

Yeah, I was surprised that this happened. Because, and...

[14:36]

And I was even more surprised because when the documentary was being worked

on, I mean, A, we now know that Russ McKamey didn't participate in it,

obviously, but he was talking about it like it was a positive thing before it came out.

Yeah. He was talking about it and hyping it up, like, yeah, we've got some big

shit going down soon. It's going to be great, you know. We're going big.

Yeah, I was very surprised by news surrounding that.

Yeah. Yeah, so what comes later in this episode is kind of fucking hilarious,

because I seem to remember Russ McCamey, it was in the Reckless Ben videos,

talking about how this was big, this was happening, and they were excited about

it, even though they weren't participating in it, obviously.

They were excited, but yeah, we have avoided the documentary deliberately to

not give oxygen to McCamey Manor.

Obviously that fucking failed, because look where we fucking are today.

Yeah, I mean, we have to talk about it, and we have to use the full name for

reasons we won't get into.

[15:40]

But yeah, we avoided it deliberately. We did watch the Reckless Ben videos. Yes.

And we enjoyed the ever-loving shit out of those. Yes, and we saw that those

were going around in all of our haunt friends, and we are happy that y'all found them, too.

I am so happy that those got at least some attention. Not as much as the Hulu

documentary, but they did get some good attention. But once again,

we've not seen the Hulu documentary.

And honestly, I'm probably just going to stick to my guns and not see it now either.

Yeah. Because even though I now maybe don't think it's quite as pro-McCamey

as it was pitched to me by some people, I also can understand why those people were telling me that.

And I still don't want to give oxygen to it. Yeah. But all that being said,

Russ McCamey has filed two lawsuits.

The first is against the Attorney General of Tennessee and the State Fire Marshal.

And the second is against the Hulu, the documentary's producer, and Justin Yeris.

So we're going to talk about these lawsuits, what they mean for Russ McKinney,

McKinney Manor, blah, blah, blah, and what they will mean for the haunt industry more broadly.

And whether we like it or not, these are likely going to be meaningful and impactful.

And, hint, we don't like it. Yeah. So, anyways, background.

[16:58]

You had something else to say

there? No, no. No, I think that it may have similar effects as the fire.

Yeah, the Honey Castle fire. Castle fire, yes. Yeah, the Six Flags Honey Castle

fire. I don't disagree. That's a great analogy.

Yes, I know that you mentioned it to me earlier off of...

No, I was just going to let you run with it. But yeah, no, because,

I mean, that fire made the fire marshals crack down on haunts everywhere,

and we're still complaining about it. We're the boogeyman of the fire marshal industry. Exactly.

So if it's, you know, if this makes it harder for haunters in the future to

have movies filmed at their haunts

or to have documentaries about them or anything, that's problematic.

Or for fire marshals to give even more side eye to haunts.

And now attorneys general, I think is how you pluralize that,

attorneys general too? Yeah.

[17:58]

I don't want to say this could be a disaster for the industry,

but it sure as hell ain't good.

Yeah, it has potential repercussions beyond just McKamey Manor and Tennessee.

We decided we can't ignore it.

Hard as we fucking tried. Yes. Really did try. God damn it. We really did.

Okay, so, quick background. If you don't know who Russ McKamey is,

good for you. Turn off the podcast and go on with your life.

Yes. Just fucking turn around now and go that way.

You sweet summer child, go live your beautiful life and don't dirty yourself with this. Yeah.

[18:37]

Basically, for those who don't know and for some reason aren't fucking listening

to me, He operates a thing, don't even know how to describe it, named McKamey Manor.

Now, the actual history and origins of McKamey Manor is somewhat difficult and divisive.

There's some different narratives and stories we've heard, so we'll stick to the big picture.

It started out as a home haunt in California and got into live streaming and

sort of gained popularity online through live streaming and shifted away from

actually running a haunted house with like a walkthrough and props and to basically

operating a torture chamber.

[19:17]

Yeah, and from what I understand, his home haunt was more of a traditional home

haunt that you would go through and there would be animatronics and props and people.

Yeah, people were there to scare like a traditional place. And it wasn't so

much for a position towards torture at that point.

But then his home haunt got shut down. Yeah.

And so then it became a van haunt.

Is that right? Yeah. It got shut down after he pivoted more to doing the tortury stuff. Yeah.

And then he started doing roaming van haunt stuff, which is weird.

And then he eventually had to get out of California completely. completely

ended up in tennessee yeah because

imagine that california was not happy about

somebody roaming around picking up people in a van and

beating the shit out of them and laying them out um allegedly yeah allegedly

um so yeah basically mckamey manor is famous first for not being a haunted house

not anymore it hasn't been what i would describe as a haunted attraction for a very long time. Yeah.

[20:32]

And it was a pretty... And that's the thing that kind of kills me is according

to people who knew McKamey Manor before when it was actually a home haunt,

they seem to think it was pretty good. Yeah.

I have no idea because this guy spends things.

Like he's able to spend. That's true. So I don't know.

[20:52]

That's true. I've heard it from people I trust, but once again,

we don't know how much direct knowledge they have.

Exactly. So that I think is what you're trying to get at. We trust the people

who told us this, but I don't know how much direct knowledge they have.

But it's known for being a torture chamber, not a haunted attraction. it's

known for a twenty thousand dollar promise for

anyone who completes it a prize that no one has collected

for the very simple reason that it's impossible

to collect right because whenever you have

someone who can change the rules so that they keep moving the goal post on you

you're never going to reach it yeah when they decide when you're done yeah nobody

can ever win basically The person who would be giving the money is also the

person deciding when it's over.

Yeah. That's bullshit. That can't work. Can't happen that way.

It's also famous for its insane liability waiver, which you can now find online, I found out.

Yeah. And apparently you can, well, never mind.

Yeah, you can find it online. And obviously you cannot consent to be tortured.

No. So it doesn't protect him in any way. Not realistically, no.

Because... And this is a big thing in, like, the BDSM community and so forth,

but, like, signing, like...

[22:09]

One of our lawyer friends actually talked about this. The waiver you sign for

something like this has a name in the legal system.

It's called Exhibit A for the plaintiff. Yeah, exactly.

Because basically you're announcing what you intend to do.

And yeah, they signed and consented to it, but consent can always be withdrawn.

[22:31]

So basically all you're doing is providing a written record of what you're doing.

You're not really helping your argument in any way, shape, or form.

A good example is if I sign a contract agreeing to a 10-round boxing match,

but after two rounds I decide I'm getting my ass kicked, I'm not doing what

I want, take off the gloves, take out the mouthpiece, and start to walk away.

You're not allowed to keep punching me. Exactly.

You're not allowed. I stopped. I stopped consenting to the boxing match.

While I consented, yes, boxing match is fine.

When I stopped consenting, it is not. It's that simple. So the liability waiver

is known for being insane, like hundreds

of pages, and also not legally enforceable in any appreciable way.

Not legally binding. And if you watch the Reckless Ben videos,

obviously easy to manipulate and not something that is checked before signing on Russ's side.

Yeah, and that really threw me for a loop because he relies so heavily on the

air quotes protections that gives him.

Yeah. And then doesn't do digital e-signing or something, like an actual e-sign,

like DocuSign or a company like that.

He just emails you a PDF to print out.

I don't think it's even a PDF. I think it's just a Word doc.

Yeah, he emails you the document in some format, and he was able just to alter

it, print it, sign it, and send it. Yeah.

[23:55]

Jesus Christ, you know? What do you want out of me? So, anyways.

Oh, and the final thing is that now, as Reckless has been helped expose,

it's just shitty calisthenics in a front yard in Tennessee.

Yeah. That's really all it is. So, yeah.

Now, The Haunt has been featured in a bunch of documentaries over the years,

including The Haunter's one that we talked about eons ago.

We're not going into that right now. We don't have time.

Right. But the most relevant for us right now is the 2023 Hulu documentary,

Monster Inside, and the Reckless Ben videos.

Though I've got to say, I'm a little surprised Reckless Ben,

Danny, and the people involved in that have not been sued that I'm aware of.

They're not in this case in any way.

Right. As far as I know, they haven't. But I do know that there are some videos

that we haven't watched yet from them. Yeah.

And they were mentioning being in talks with attorneys.

Yeah. But it may have just been people that they know. I don't know how formal

that was or if it was in response to something that Russ did.

Yeah. We're not fully caught up on those, admittedly.

[25:01]

But yeah. But these lawsuits do not involve reckless bin in any way, shape or form.

And so there are two cases and we're going to take them one at a time because

they're very different cases. and their potential impacts on the industry are very different.

So now that we're 25 minutes in, we get to talk about the actual cases themselves.

The first is against the Tennessee Attorney General and the state fire marshal.

Basically, the Hulu documentary was released in October 2023,

right around Halloween.

And shortly after its release, the Texas Attorney General, on X slash Twitter

of all places, basically made a public statement saying that he was investigating

Russ McKamey and McKamey Manor.

He sent them, basically their concerns were questions about business practices,

possible violations of consumer protection laws, concerns over consent, no shit,

and the fakeness of the aforementioned prize.

Yeah. So basically he sent what is known as an RFI, a request for information.

[26:09]

To McKamey and told him that under Tennessee code and provided the code,

he was required to answer this RFI. Yes.

So what does McKamey do?

And this was a fairly basic questions by like fairly fundamental shit.

No legitimate business owner would have any trouble answering these questions.

Russ McKamey, on the other hand, take it away, Crystal.

Decided in January that he would respond to this formal request by pleading the fifth. A fifth.

Thank you, Dave. Jesus Christ. Fifth. One, two, three, four. Fifth.

[26:49]

The Fifth Amendment and Dave Chappelle

[26:50]

Sorry please go yeah yes

and he refused to provide the information or

appear in person yeah so he basically just said nope nope i'm gonna plead the

no i'm gonna do it basically and for those who don't know the fifth amendment

or those who don't know or don't watch dave chappelle um shame on you i don't

dave chappelle's gotten complicated recently exactly i'm pretty yeah Yeah, my little...

There's some niggle in my brain. I don't know what it is. There's some little

hook in my brain that's telling me that I shouldn't be pimping Dave Chappelle.

Yeah. I forgot what it is, honestly. There's so many celebrities now. I've lost track.

Yes. And we just watched that thing about Bill Cosby, and Jesus Christ.

Oh, we've only watched two episodes.

There's like six more. Oh, Jesus Christ, there's more? Oh, yes.

I didn't realize there was fucking more. There's so much more. Oh, fuck me.

[27:41]

Okay, look, I've had enough of Bill Cosby's a shit stain. I get it.

Yeah. I mean, I knew it, but now I really get it. Anyway, what the fuck are

we talking about? It must have became another shit stain.

Jesus Christ. It's a shit stain episode. It's titled Shit Stain.

But basically, the Fifth Amendment is your right against self-incrimination.

So basically, nobody can force you to testify against yourself. Right.

But that's kind of weird, but it's a right I believe in very strongly.

It's a very important right. Right. But when you get asked very basic questions

about your business practices and you respond with the Fifth Amendment...

[28:19]

Not a good sign. No. Not a good sign. Not a good sign.

Basically, he was claiming that he was pressured to testify further,

and he said that McCamey Manor is not a registered business in the state and

that the investigation could be used to prosecute him personally.

You know, only if he did illegal shit, but, you know, there's that, right?

Yeah, there is. Now, at the same time the Attorney General started their investigation,

the AG's office did, the fire marshal claims it got an anonymous tip.

Now, he seems very suspicious about this anonymous tip.

I would like to remind the court that, like, a lot of people watch this documentary.

The idea that one of them picked up the phone and called in some random tip

[29:09]

Targeting and Anonymous Tips

[29:05]

to the fire marshal office at the state of Tennessee is not out of the question.

That doesn't sound crazy at all to me. me no and

like so part of this is that

he thinks somebody's targeting him directly yeah

that's that's a lot of the theme here yeah and i

know it's coming in later but we gotta talk about a little bit now yeah because

a lot of people saw that a lot of people saw the reckless spin videos um there's

no reason to think that one person called i mean it wasn't it wasn't me no i'm

pulling my shaggy now. It wasn't me. Yeah, exactly.

It wasn't me. You have such current references. I know.

[29:46]

Baby, man, all my references are like 20 years old.

[29:51]

If I get anything from 2005, that's as current as I get. I know shaggy was in

the 90s. Shut the fuck up.

Anyway. Excuse me, I'm going to go apply for Medicare now.

We didn't mention that we just got back from watching an hour and a half high

school musical play. Not high school musical.

No, not a high school musical. A play by a high school. A musical by a high

school. Yes. It's a long story how this happened.

And by that we know a high school. That's the story.

Yeah. What the fuck are we talking about? I don't know. We're off the rails.

We just don't want to talk about this. We're just going to veer off into whatever

countryside we can. We're talking about how your references are only 20 years

old and then you remember that they're older than that.

[30:40]

It wasn't me. Yes. The targeting, targeting, targeting.

And then, you know, it was probably more than one person that actually reached

out to the fire marshal. But yeah, I mean, okay.

Maybe he is being targeted, but here's the thing. Nothing here is more target-y

than I've heard being done to other haunted attractions.

No. I mean, remember the targeting the hell's a shock used to get?

[31:09]

Well, I was thinking more of the Chamber of Horrors. Yeah. And then connected

to it, I was going to jump into that, was the Chamber of Horrors down the road from them.

Yeah. Got very heavily targeted by the fire marshal. Yeah.

Like literally knocking on the door, demanding them inspecting thing like hours before opening.

[31:30]

Barn Code Violations and Affidavit

[31:26]

Yeah. I think once it was like 15 minutes before opening. It was crazy.

Yeah, it was. It was nuts. So we have seen way

worse targeting is what I'm saying of haunted attractions

that aren't like hulu documentaries yeah and

that you know actually were open multiple nights

with multiple customers and turning a profit and

you know all that stuff we're like a business but yeah basically um says they

got an anonymous tip so it led to a search of the barn he was using for some

of the scenes and they found four code violations each of which was a class

c misdemeanor and however However,

they were not going to necessarily prosecute those.

They just wanted him to sign a sworn affidavit that he will no longer use the

barn for commercial purposes.

It can only be used for storage under its current condition.

Yeah. Which, I mean, it is a barn.

Right. And the thing that he seems to be leaning heavily on is that he doesn't

consider himself a business. Yeah.

[32:27]

However, I don't know the laws there in Tennessee.

I know that in Louisiana, if you require a donation, even if it's not cash money,

even if it's not money that you're not a donation, you're yourself are keeping. Yeah.

You are considered a business.

[32:49]

Russ McCamey's Business Status

[32:49]

So his little bag of dog food thing may be about to shoot him in the ass, and I hope it does. Yeah.

So basically, though, he's saying that signing that affidavit could be an admission

of criminal conduct in other ways.

Basically admitting that he did things in that barn to other people.

[33:09]

Lawsuit Claims Counting Fail

[33:09]

So basically, this lawsuit has three separate claims.

And get ready to learning how to count poorly, because a lot of numbers coming.

Well, I mean, by a lot, I mean three. More numbers than we usually do on Home

Weekly. Shut the fuck up.

We've already been doing numbers tonight. I can only count to five. I can only count to five.

The first is a violation of his Fifth Amendment rights. He says that participating

or cooperating in either investigation may expose him to criminal prosecution.

[33:38]

Especially since he is insisting 1,000% he is not a business,

and trying to force him to sign the affidavit or to fill out the RFI is a violation

of his Fifth Amendment rights.

The second claim is it's a violation of his Fourth Amendment rights for the

search of his barn. He says basically it's a private space.

It was not used in a business. And that the initial inspection and the threat

of continued inspections if they don't, if he doesn't sign the affidavit,

basically is a tantamount to a violation of his Fourth Amendment rights.

And the one that I love, if you're sitting there going, that sounds pretty stupid.

Just wait. You may want to sit down more. If you can sit down further,

I would encourage you to lay down.

Lay down. Lay down. That was a good time to lay down.

Because it's a violation of his First Amendment rights for denying him the freedom to not speak.

[34:39]

Yes, by not providing any information or signing the affidavits or any of that stuff.

Now, in a weird way, there is an argument there because the right to not speak

is part of the right to speak. Right. I get that.

But it seems like you're just duplicating your Fifth Amendment arguments and

trying to attach it to another amendment. Yeah.

Because I'm pretty sure the Fifth Amendment arguments would be more important

logically in this phrase.

And honestly, this is just insane because the thing about it is,

is that Russ McCamey, whether or not he registered a business in that state,

presented it as a business, operated it as a business, operated it as a brand,

clearly has somehow benefited from it financially.

Yes. We don't, I admittedly, I don't know how.

No. But he has clearly gained some benefit from it. If nothing else than notoriety

and being able to exploit that.

So, yes, he's presented it as a business. He's claimed, treated it as a business,

advertised it as one and done so even in other documentaries.

[35:48]

So we're basically he knows Bill McCamey Manor as a thing. And that's kind of the thing.

It's like it's never been, you know, you know, McCamey Manor.

He's always presented it as the world's scariest haunted house

he's never really built it as a home haunt he's never

built it as a charity haunt that i'm aware of no always presented

it as this at least quasi-professional enterprise

and i had always i mean and the

proof to me is i was stunned to learn it wasn't a

redshirt business and this was

something we learned in the uh reckless ben videos actually right

sorry i should say in the reckless ben videos we learned it i

was surprised to learn it wasn't a business that it

hadn't been registered i know i was

surprised by that i was genuinely surprised because of

how much russ mccamey has been

able to you know what i mean promote this and build this and present this as

a business i i definitely was confused on that point and i mean there's a simple

if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck it's probably a duck you know

or as doctors like to say when you hear hooves think horses not zebra.

[37:00]

Because horses are way more common than zebra, at least here. Yeah.

It's that type of logic to me. I just assumed it was. Because,

once again, it was never presented clearly as anything.

But, you know, we, on the other hand, always present ourselves as a home haunt experience.

We always work very hard to say it is totally free to come in.

Donations are appreciated, but not required. And most people do not donate.

You know, we're always very careful about these things. Yeah,

especially on Halloween night, not everyone donates because it's kids. And kids don't have...

I don't really track it. We don't expect them to. I track the end amounts,

but I don't really track the percentage of people who do or don't because I don't give a shit.

Yeah, I think... I literally have no numbers on this. Yeah. I know from talking

with our front of line staff that most people don't. Yeah. That's fine.

Yeah. I genuinely don't care. Yes, because we do it for the love of it.

Yeah. And for, you know, giving something to the community while feeling creative needs of our own.

That's why we do it. And to help, you know, be a good neighbor in the community.

Because we love seeing people happy. Exactly. And making memories and stuff like that.

And as old as it makes me feel, I love it when people say, this was my first

haunt and now I'm bringing my kids this haunt.

A, stop it. I feel older than shit when you say that.

But thank you. At the same time, thank you, right? Yeah.

[38:28]

No, I mean, I love stories like

that. And it's, I don't think we've ever even broke even. No. God, no.

[38:39]

And we've never tried to. No. Not a goal.

It is everywhere. The donations are welcome, but not required.

We never presented ourselves as a business in any piece of marketing. Nope.

[38:54]

And so that's the first lawsuit. I really, really think that this one is just plain dumb.

Yeah. I'm sorry. Sorry, because there's I don't think there's basically they're

arguing that they know their constitutional rights better than the attorney general.

Yeah, that's a hell of a stretch. My you're asking me who's better at constitutional

law. I'm going with the AG.

I'm sorry. Yeah, that's some big something energy to bring that. Yeah.

To try to lecture the AG about constitutional. Yeah, that's a wild swing, buddy.

So, yeah, this lawsuit, I just I don't feel the vibe on it at all.

I really am confused by the arguments here.

I really just think that he's trying desperately to not have to give over this

information, which I mean, and his argument seems paper thin.

His argument is, I'm not a business because I never registered as one in the

state, ignoring the other obligations there and other elements of it.

So it'll be interesting to see where this one goes, but I'm not an optimist

on Russ McCamey's chances here.

I just hope that this prodding of the AG doesn't hurt other haunts. Mm-hmm.

[40:14]

Lawsuit Against Hulu and Justin Yeris

[40:15]

Now, the second lawsuit is against Hulu, North of Now Studios, and Justin Yeris.

North of Now Studios is the producer of the documentary. So basically,

it's Hulu, the distributor, the streaming service of the documentary,

North of Now Studios, the producers of it, and Justin Yeris,

a participant of the documentary,

and the founder of the McKamey Manor Exposed slash Truth About McKamey Manor

Facebook group, which was heavily featured in the Reckless Bend videos.

So he was in there. um now i

have bad news for this one guys really bad news

i was not able to easily get my hands on

the lawsuit itself i was not able to uh none of them the first one the lawsuit

was in multiple of the stories right it was easy to get easy to download no

problem i was not able to get this one so we're going to have to base all of

our coverage on the news articles except for the fact i have a a Pacer account.

[41:11]

Motherfuckers, I spent $5 on this. Yeah. I expect you to join my Kickstarter and give me $5 in beer.

We don't have a Kickstarter. That would be like... It's a beer starter. A beer starter.

Now, if we get a beer starter kit in the mail... Well, I would consider it well

beyond even, but we already have one of those. Yeah, I know.

But anyway, but yeah, so basically, I pulled it from Pacer. I spent like four or five bucks on it.

Thank me later. I don't know. I don't know why the fuck I do this to myself.

And I'm pretty sure I'm now on some kind of list and pacer.

But you're welcome. I actually pulled it down, the actual lawsuit,

to try to speak about it more intelligently.

Now, one thing that's immediately interesting is that despite multiple articles

saying otherwise, this is not a defamation lawsuit.

[42:01]

Defamation is actually not mentioned. There's no mention of slander,

libel, defamation, or anything related.

Obviously, they didn't pay the $5 for the pacer access.

Well, it was funny. The first place I tried to get it from wanted to charge me $50.

And I said, fuck that. I got a pacer account. I know how to do this. Yeah.

I'm sure it was one of those things where one person said defamation,

so then other people said defamation.

Oh, I'm 100% sure of that. I'm sure that that's how that telephone worked.

Then that's kind of the weird thing. there's no

mention of defamation or libel in this which is

interesting because that seemed like what would have been

the low-hanging fruit to at least argue right instead the lawsuit focuses entirely

on allegations of invasion of privacy and allegations of center around email

hacking basically according to the lawsuit yaris hacked into russ mccamey's

email by impersonating him with his email provider,

getting the password, and then downloading his private emails and sharing with

him, first with the group, the Facebook group, and then with the documentary

film team who showed screenshots of the email and various things.

And I mean, I'm not going to get into what was in those emails because it isn't

terribly important for the purpose

of lawsuits, but it did not paint Russ McCamey in a positive light.

We'll just say that. Yeah. This was highly embarrassing.

[43:27]

So, yeah. And this seems to be something that Yaris admitted to in the documentary

and has admitted to it elsewhere.

Because one of the things that was interesting was though McKamey was aware

of the email hack because the hack also changes passwords and cut him off from

accessing his own account.

Even though that is true, he knew about that. He had no idea who had done it.

And apparently the documentary was how he learned who did it,

at least according to the lawsuit. Once again, all of this is according to the lawsuit.

Yes. So we have one side of the story right now. Yeah, basically.

And we definitely don't even have any of the others. Like I said,

we didn't watch the documentary. And now I'm committed to the bit now.

What can I say? um now russ claims he didn't know who did until the documentary

was released and speaking of which,

russ made a very big deal in this lawsuit spending like three

or four fucking pages on this like a long time to say that he did not participate

in the documentary even though i don't think there was much assumption he had

i mean i get why he had to put it in there but he seemed to really want to back

it up um but he said that hulu did hulu and the producers did show some emails emails,

and also invaded his privacy by using his likeness in promotions, basically.

[44:47]

In promotions and in the documentary. But he was focused very heavily on the

promotions, the advertisements, the trailers, and things like that.

He even commented about how he was featured 12 times in one of the trailers,

which was once every 13 seconds or something like that.

He was really interested in these trailers and how much he was used.

And I get that because, yeah, using someone's likeness in advertisements is a dubious thing.

But that typically is only if you are using it to present them as if they support

and promote the product.

Not as in this is a documentary about someone.

Yeah, if the documentary is about a public figure, then you get into public figure laws, right?

Well, you do. and yeah and that's one

of the weird things about this lawsuit is he seems to be simultaneously claiming

he is a celebrity who has

protections over his brand and his image and his

identity especially when it's being used in advertising but once again that

that has to do with using the image and the likeness to like not demonstrate

what's in the product but when you use it to say They make people make the connection

that so-and-so supports this.

If I say, you know, be like Brad Pitt and use Copybites, you know,

DMCA takedown service or something. I only got Brad Pitt on the brink as a family guy.

[46:13]

Yeah, that's a problematic one, too. Yeah, I know. I'm just hitting all the

landmines today. I know.

Okay, you know, but basically, oh, Keanu Reeves. Be like Keanu Reeves. Use Copybite.

You know, his DMCA takedown services are the best. Keanu Reeves says that.

That's a violation of Keanu Reeves' rights. Obviously, we're not actually saying

that. I'm not saying that. Keanu Reeves has no idea who the fuck I am.

[46:38]

I mean, I didn't kill his dog, so I'm safe, but the point remains.

[46:43]

Obviously, I'm not saying that for real, but if I did and put it in an advertisement,

that would be a violation of

his publicity rights because he didn't say that. He didn't authorize it.

But if I said, hey, you know, I'm selling a copy of a movie that Keanu Reeves

is in, like I'm selling a copy of the original Matrix, and I use a poster or

the cover of the DVD from the Matrix, that's not the same thing.

Right because that's something that he

he was in he started he put his face

to it it's a movie that's you know featuring him

not necessarily that he's endorsing my dvd business

right and that gets into resale and all of

that other yeah it gets into a lot of other stuff but basically speaking yeah typically

i don't think there was much confusion about

russ mccamey not supporting promoting hulu like

he wasn't promoting hulu which seemed to

be the kind of weird tether he was making there at least as i understood

it but basically yeah he was claiming there was

an invasion of his privacy both in terms of using his likeness and

his image and in terms of intrusion what

they call intrusion upon seclusion which is where he seems to be making the

weird double argument here that he's a celebrity but he's also a private individual

and had a seclusion yeah and i i think that you know if they look at these two lawsuits together.

[48:07]

Invasion of Privacy and Image Use

[48:08]

You're saying oh i'm not a business you know

i'm just a little home haunt nobody knows about me

but wait i'm a big celebrity and have a

complete brand completely valuable and hulu gained

gained subscribers because of my face yeah yeah yeah

it's it's the arguments but

not just within this lawsuit but between the lawsuits like the seem at odds

with one another they really do my interpretation once again not a lawyer but

they really do feel like they're at odds to me so he's suing for four things

in this one and there's actually way more counts but a lot of the counts are

connected to the same thing, so I'm simplifying.

He's suing for violation of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act and related acts

to it, basically. This is dealing with email hacking.

He's suing for invasion of privacy, both related to the use of his likeness

and the quote-unquote unreasonable breach into private life.

[49:03]

Which once again sounds like a duality, especially since a lot of the footage

of him was already public.

I'm not really sure how that one goes, but whatever. whatever.

He's also suing for the infliction of emotional distress and conspiracy.

And those two are basically just connected to the first two.

He is seeking a total of $8.3 million in damages.

Now, the thing about it is, and I choke as I'm saying this, but I think he may

unfortunately have a point on the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act stuff.

[49:37]

Now, one thing to keep in mind is that email typically is not considered private

because email is basically the equivalent of sending a postcard through the mail system.

Everyone can look at it and read it as it goes from person to person,

station to station, hand to hand.

And email, unless you're one of the weirdos who encrypts all their email,

which honestly, there was a weird time in the early 2000s internet where that

was becoming a common thing. It just never reached critical mass.

And because of that, all of our email is sent in clear text now.

Anyone can scan it and read it.

You know, kind of sucks. But, I mean, we just never really developed a system

that both worked between different networks and was simple enough to use,

realistically, is the problem.

And that really sucks. It would have been great. I think we could have had better

privacy in our email, but we don't.

So don't treat email ever as private.

Every time you send an email, assume that it could be on the front page of your

local newspaper tomorrow because, realistically, it could. foot.

Now, how many of you just freaked out a little bit? If you did,

I'm sorry, but this is actual advice I got both from my attorney and my journalism

law professor in college.

Yeah. So, I've heard this from two separate lawyers in my life,

both of whom have some degree of obligation to tell me the truth,

you know? So, something to think about.

[51:06]

Basically, I've heard that exact He's acting lying about assuming it could be

on the front page of the newspaper tomorrow. Yeah, I believe it.

What if they were plagiarizing each other?

No, no, no, they weren't. They were in two separate states. They don't know each other. Yeah.

But anyways, but the point is, is that his email was hacked through deception.

[51:25]

There's an argument to be made. And look, I get no joy in saying Russ McKamey

may be right about something.

But that may be something he's right on.

Yeah, I guess we will just have to wait and see because... I see some strength

and validity in those arguments.

I just, I plainly do. And I'm sorry, now the invasion of privacy and the use

of his image, I'm not buying that.

No, because he puts his image out there everywhere. Yeah, he,

you don't get to try to become such a public figure.

And once again, he even acknowledges openly working with other documentaries,

even doing other projects like that.

You don't get on one hand to try to be making yourself a public figure.

And then when that publicity brings unwanted attention, claim you're a private figure.

You know, you can't do that. So this one's going to be an interesting one to

[52:19]

Tennessee Laws on Computer Hacking

[52:18]

play out from the hacking standpoint.

I don't think the privacy ones, but I'm very interesting because,

and I did not know this was something in the lawsuit, is Tennessee has its own

laws about computer hacking that basically says anyone that enjoys the fruit of a computer hack,

in this case that would be Hulu and the production company,

is also liable as a separate act.

So that's going to be, that I think there's an argument to be made.

I do not agree with the hacking of his email account.

[52:48]

Basically, I think Russ McCamey is a dirtbag. I've said that 100,000 times.

I'm not exactly breaking new ground here.

I think he's a dirtbag, but you don't stop a dirtbag by being a dirtbag too,

even if you're not as bad as one.

You don't get down in the mud with him? Yeah, because, A, you're still going

to get dirty and they're going to beat you with experience. Yeah, exactly.

[53:17]

That's how that phrase went when I heard it. Yep. So, yeah, basically,

don't get in the mud with a pig.

You're going to get dirty and they're going to beat you with experience when you're down there.

So, yeah, I'm worried about that.

[53:30]

Russ McCamey's Contradictory Arguments

[53:31]

Anyways, that is where I think he might have a point. the

first lawsuit i don't have a fucking clue what

the arguments there are on about i just because he

does seem to be trying to have it both ways in a lot of areas yeah

i'm not a business i am a business this is

private property but i'm also using it in my internet streams that are somehow

it may or may not be commercialized i don't know yeah and i'm a public individual

who can sell hulu subscriptions but i'm also a private person who just wants

to lead as quietly He seems to be trying to have it both ways and a lot of stuff.

And I think that's going to get him called out a few times. I would be surprised if it doesn't.

So, yeah, I don't honestly know what's going to happen with these cases,

but looking into them and after reading them.

[54:19]

You know, I think he has a valid point on the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act stuff,

[54:26]

4D Chess or 3D Idiocy?

[54:23]

but everything else I am pretty fucking lost on.

No. I'm trying to understand the arguments here. I just, maybe,

I mean, maybe he's playing 4D chess and I'm stuck in a 3D world.

Maybe I'm the idiot here.

But I don't know, man. I've got a lot of experience reading lawsuits and a lot

of experience sort of seeing how they evolve over time.

Admittedly, not in this space, but in general. And you just kind of get a vibe

when a lawsuit is doomed.

I kind of get that vibe. I really get that vibe about the first one and about

most of the second one, too.

Yeah. Well, anyways, on that note, everyone, thank you very much for joining

us. I'm sorry you had to sit through that.

And for the wait. And for the wait. Yeah, for being late. But please do check

out more Haunt Weekly at hauntweekly.com, Haunt Weekly at Twitter,

facebook.com slash hauntweekly, youtube.com slash hauntweekly and wherever you

get your finer podcast from we are there.

Until next time though, I'm Jonathan. I'm Crystal. And we will see you all next

week with not McKamey Manor. Anything else. Just anything. Anything.

I don't give a shit what else. And maybe something less difficult to research.

I spent way too much time on this week. Yeah.

You should have made that the question of the week. Yeah, what the fuck can

I talk about next week? Bonus question of the week.

What the fuck can I talk about next week that won't spend me six hours of my

life on reading litigation. See you all then.

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