{0:23] Hello everyone, I'm Jonathan. I'm Krystal and this is Haunt Weekly, a weekly podcast for your haunted attraction, haunted entertainment community, Whether you're an actor, owner, or just plain aficionado, we aim to be a podcast for you, And we return to you this week with an attempt to make you feel included, Hopefully, hopefully or at the very least an attempt to help you make others feel included. Yeah, Because that is important And we're going to get into all the reasons why in just a minute, But definitely if you have not done so already take a moment follow all the places we exist We're at hauntweekly.com or hauntweekly on Twitter, hauntweekly on Facebook and youtube.com slash haunt weekly, You can also find us at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts from these days, Really need to update that list in the show notes because a lot of those places don't exist anymore.

[1:15] But yes, indeed. We appreciate you joining us this week, but every week we ask a question a week, Mostly, yeah. Yeah, mostly, yeah, last week we fucked up, I know. But this week we have a lot of great answers to the question of the week and basically two weeks ago we asked you what is your pre-haunting ritual? And I'm just gonna say right off the bat, some of y'all need to get healthier rituals. So why don't you kick us off? All right.
Nicole Beeblebrox said, leave work, scramble, take out dog, change into from the uniform, slam a blue raspberry energy drink and music jam out in the car on the way, get to the management trailer, basically there's a whole day's worth of stuff.
Apparently it's crammed into like 30 minutes. Leaving work and going to the haunt.
And it all ends with slamming yet another energy drink. Yeah, and then go.
Yes The 13th hour haunted trail said praying that people will show up As a haunt owner.

[2:20] Even though we're a home on yeah, I feel that that's well. Here's the thing for us, We have like two separate fears. Yeah, one is like no one's gonna show up Uh-huh, and then I've disappointed the entire crew everyone who's helped us is disappointed and that said on the other hand I'm worried that everybody in the fucking universe is going to show up and completely overload our capacity to handle them.
Exactly.
Both are very real fears. We have not had, we've only had one kid, we have had nobody show up before on, nights which, no, those were lessons we learned basically. Those were nights we shouldn't have opened. Yeah.

[2:53] We made mistakes, we opened on nights that were just a bad idea and paid for it.
Um, like we did a november 1st once and nobody showed up for that, but like on halloween night in particular We've never had a problem. No one showing up and we've never really had our capacity, Completely overrun. We've gotten really close gotten close a couple times like going back to 2018 I think we got to our our actor capacity like how much we could put up with yeah.

Caffeine and Energy Drink Habits

[3:21] But but no we have not actually been overrun yet, but it's been close a few times But yeah, both fears are present and equal. Yeah, All right Chris Gay said consuming enough caffeine to kill a horse in lieu of food because I don't have time to eat once again.

[3:38] Dude healthier habits, I'm worried about you, man. Yeah, there's a lot of energy drinks in the comments, Which is bad because I mean, okay. Okay, it's not bad. I mean, I enjoy the energy drinks it Yeah to be a hundred percent clear, But I also know how brutal that calm down from caffeine can be. Yeah, and depending on how long your night is.

[3:58] You might you're either going to need to take more in the middle of it Which can be its own trickiness depending upon your position or yeah You're just gonna hit like a three-hour wall and it's gonna be rough. Yeah, and I've been there Mia Keel has one very very two fairies. Yeah, so we know they're serious, A specific playlist while I do my makeup if I listen to any other time of the year I get too pumped up and can't function like an adult, Okay, Mia. I want this playlist. Yeah, I, Sound awesome. I want this playlist. I'm not picky about what genre it is. I mean, I I just I have to know what's in this playlist just because, We all might have use for a playlist of that capacity. Yeah, but then again the problem is what gets one person amped up, Might not get another right and like we found this whenever we were, Running. Yeah, um, you had a specific playlist for you and mine was a little bit different, Well, yeah Mine was very focused on beats per minute and keeping a specific energy level, And yours you needed to keep it different when a lot of that's because we run at different cadences, right?
One thing we found out um, I have a much longer stride when I run, so I have a slightly slower cadence, and I needed music that was high energy but fit that beat.
And it was a very different needs, basically, is what it came down to.
And also, like, look, you want to get my parents amped, you play Sweet Caroline.

[5:23] Yeah, they'll get lit over that. I don't understand it either.
Anyway, it's moving on. Had to be done.
Oliver Benton said I lead our haunt actors and warm-ups. We lovingly call haunt yoga your typical warm-up stretches with, Some breathing work. There were a lot of stretches and breathing work from a lot of different people, Yeah, which was very good to hear and at the end we do a theater shakeout followed by our best group scream, Which is I think pretty awesome now, I will say someone responded to this exactly Tagging apparently another person at their haunt. Yeah, Benjamin Rodriguez responded. Yeah, don't let Laura write sparks Whoever that is. We didn't know the individual yet. They sound lovely though, Yeah, she already wants us doing Zumba and costume for a video. That sounds like a great social media thing I'm not gonna say I'm you know what? I'm on Laura's team here I would totally watch that video. Yeah. Hey, I've never really seen much Zumba. Yeah, I don't think I have like the vaguest idea like I know where the Zumba place nearby is.

Catering for Crew with Dietary and Allergy Restrictions

[6:29] It's an exercise thing. Oh, it's an exit. So it's a class exercise thing Yeah, I think but I think it's like a higher energy like really high energy than yoga because yoga, Well, depending on how you do it, obviously But most yoga is fairly in the stretching and relaxing and building strength through core positioning and whatnot Zumba, I believe is more high energy and high intensity. So yeah, and finally from our own crew, Farrell said, scramble from class, stuff my face, and then hit the line.
And you know, that's one of the things I think we do exceptionally well here, is feed our crew.
Yeah.

[7:06] You work for us, if you leave hungry, you fucked up, not us, I guarantee you. Yeah.
I mean, because- Yeah, we're already planning what the meals will be because this year is gonna be a little bit different because with the yarn store, Ellie's not gonna be able to cater as much.
Yeah, so we're having, and luckily for us, Halloween this year falls on a Tuesday.
Yes. Which means the big night, Ellie will be here, the Snorin Shore is closed on Tuesday.
But the Friday and Saturday before, we're gonna have to figure something out.
And I've already been looking at some catering options and things like that.
The tricky part is getting something that everybody can eat when we have a mix of dietary and allergy restriction. Right.
That's preferably handheld and it's handheld It's getting food that works is the difficult part not the money part, right?
Yeah, which is so frustrating because it's like we ended up doing last year from one of the nights we got, catering from firehouse, you know free catering because, Which was awesome, but then I screwed up the order and forgot we had someone who's allergic to lettuce, Yes, so we had to scramble something for her Yeah, and yes lettuce before you sit there and go in someone's allergic lies. Yes. I assure you they are allergic to lettuce like.

[8:21] Anaphylactically allergic to lettuce. No, I don't know how that works. I don't know how that works I seriously don't know because she's not allergic to spinach Which seems like it would be more problematic, but she does have issues with onions, Yeah, so I I don't know but regardless so even though I got veggie sandwiches for our vegetarian people Yeah, um, we still had that issue. We had to whip up something for that. Yes, it was it was fun, It was a challenge. But yeah, so basically that's one thing I think we do really well and that really does help take a lot of the pressure off of our actors, As they don't have to worry about getting something to eat before they come, They can just show up and trust there's going to be food there that will be at least adequate to get them through the night, Yeah, and sometimes if we're able to and if they're people interested we'll go to post The second dinner, Yes, yes, we've had first dinner, but that was fun to dinner.

Second Dinner Plans after IHOP or Waffle House

[9:18] Now that's totally gone, yeah, we need second dinner and so yeah, that's the IHOP Waffle House whatever trip we can make, Yeah, so this week's question week is connected to the topic. What's the best way a haunt has made you feel included?
Do you have an answer to that?
Um, because other than our haunt, I don't know how included you felt. I gotta be honest, Not as an actor not as an actor not because we've the haunts we worked at never really made an effort, No, which is one of been one of the frustrations we've had one of the reasons we actually went out and started making our own Haunt. Yeah, was that exact issue? Yeah, Yeah, no.

Lack of Inclusion in Haunts

[10:03] So, yeah, I haven't felt included in that way, and I don't see a lot of outward inclusion in haunts in general. Yeah. Like in the decor or in the characters. And in both of the cases, both of the haunts we've worked at as actors have been smaller haunts, charity to lower-tier haunts, admittedly, in the defense, and in both cases I don't think, Inclusion was anywhere near top of my one was literally run by the Boy Scouts, Yeah, and so by the local Boy Scout chapter and their inclusion of women was just god-awful, yeah, well and you know, it's It's changing times. But yeah, and then this one don't have yeah, forget it. We'll fucking know her when I say, Exactly. My brain still hasn't registered that 1998 was 25 years ago. Yeah. Yeah, I don't don't like that fact and it came up in an article I wrote today, and I'm still not feeling well over it you bringing up the nineteen hundreds like it was yes.

[11:10] That's last century Jesus fucking Christ, I will say one thing I did actually enjoy, Was at one of the haunts we were out because we were working here and doing our haunt to they They knew us as Bernie and they knew me as Bernie in particular. Yeah, which even though yeah, I'd appreciate you knowing my real name, Yeah, I also did appreciate they actually had a lot of respect and love for that character, Yeah, yeah, that was cool. Oh, that's as good as it gets and if you don't have a.

[11:40] Example of what a haunt did yeah, what has happened to you elsewhere?
That was surprising and that you would like to see implemented at haunts or hey You know what we'll even expand it further than that if you've just got an idea Especially when we don't cover for a lot to make you feel included. Yeah, let us know, Exactly might we're gonna be doing a follow-up to the question the week next week no matter what so this might become a whole new A sequel to it your suggestion that's happened before on the show. Yeah, like when Ellie's store got yarn bombed, There was a lot of rainbows left. Yeah, and one of them was a poly rainbow Yeah, and a lot of people don't include poly people in the rainbow And so that was nice and technically as I learned today in writing this article once again, Polyamory is not considered part of the LGBTQIA plus, quilt bag a coalition and I don't fully understand why.
Yeah.
Because but it's neither it ends up being neither here nor there. No, um, so anyways going to this week's topic Yes, let's pivot. Okay, um in episode 267. We interviewed my good friend my one of my longest friends yeah, Patrick O'Keefe about building a better home community and.

[12:55] He had a lot of great advice and feedback. It's a wonderful episode I encourage you to go listen to it and one of the main things he said is if you want to attract people a diverse group of people, you've got to make sure the top of the organization is diverse and it's, going because what's it what you attract is going to look like what's at the top.
Yeah, yeah, build the community you want. And then the community will follow.
And then the rest will follow basically. And it was such a simple idea. And yet really good. But with Pride Month coming to a close, and the 50th anniversary of the upstairs fire here in New Orleans, a major event in LGBTQ history, a major tragedy, tragic event. We wanted to talk about inclusivity and basically we're targeting the LGBTQIA plus community but realistically a lot of this stuff is just for anyone. I mean because that's kind of the beautiful thing about inclusivity, is if you do it well everyone feels included. Yeah exactly. That's kind of in the word.

Inclusivity in LGBTQIA+ Community

[13:54] So yeah we're going to be targeting that fairly heavily but at the same time if you're doing it right and thinking about it more roundly, everyone should gain something.
This isn't, this ain't pie.
No. You know, a bigger slice for someone else doesn't mean a smaller one for you.
No. This is a situation where inclusivity can actually help everyone feel more like a part of the family. quickly.

[14:17] Yeah, all right. So the first place we start is publishing an inclusivity statement. Yeah. Well, we're done. That's the end of the episode everyone Thank you very much. Oh good job team all weekly Exactly. No, I don't think I've ever seen it in FA Hughes or as its own standalone, Like I this seems like a no-brainer, You know, yeah, and the place you really want to post it In this context is wherever you're doing your recruiting and hiring. Yeah.

[14:46] And honestly, this is a good idea, even if you're not necessarily seeking to be more inclusive, because there are a lot of protected classes here, between federal and state regulations here.
There's a lot of groups you cannot discriminate, and you shouldn't discriminate against them anyway without the law, but you literally can't and can be sued.
And so having a statement like that helps protect you, but it also does a great job And ensuring that the people who apply and come to you know that they are welcomed and invited, Yeah, exactly. And if your customers go and they check out your your hiring page, I'm weird. I do that I will okay. I do it too. So yeah.

[15:30] But then I'll see it and I'll say oh, this is a good place for me to go I'll say this I don't know if I've told you this but whenever I'm planning haunt trips and I'm working on that I, I click every page of a website pretty much every page I can find I clearly read, Early skill and the reason for well, I do the me read because yeah, I have a compulsion where I have to read things, But I don't have to necessarily read it thoroughly Yeah, right. I just have to read it enough to know what it is and what's in it. Yes still can be overwhelming, Yeah, it can still be overwhelming. There are some environments where I'm like, oh shit I'm in trouble museums take forever museums take forever That one place we go to on the way to Illinois that one Mary Jane's that has, It's the giant button board, pin board with all the local events.

[16:16] Going to the bathroom takes a while. Yeah, cuz it's right by the restrooms Yeah, but anyways No I tend to read or at least skim everything enough to get an idea of what it's about so that I can either, Take it in or dismiss them. I can't just leave something untouched. Yeah.

[16:35] So but yeah I know I read pretty much everything and it does Put me in a better mood when I see positive things like that And one of the things I do see a lot on haunt sites is like the don't be a monster, haunters against hate badges.
Those aren't bad either in this regard, but I think a direct inclusivity statement, especially on the hiring page, can be a really good boon here. And like I said, on the hiring page it just makes sense.
Get with a lawyer, talk about your requirements under your local laws.
There are differences between states and communities, and there are also federal rules.
Understand that you know this way you're guarding yourself and making people feel more included. It's a win-win-win. Yeah and if you make a donation to, Hunters Against Hate and your actor is featured in it, if you have actors who are featured in it, make that a news article. Yeah. Why not send out a press release? Hey our actors were in this and or put it on your blog or whatever. Yeah or your social media, your Facebook, your Twitter, your whatever.
Congratulations to this Get it out there, man. Get it out there. Yeah, I agree with that completely. It's a good idea, too, Yeah, cuz then you're also not trying to just bury it somewhere. All right speaking of hiring practices Make your hiring forms more inclusive This is additional pro down options.

Making Hiring Forms More Inclusive

[18:01] Options for emergency contacts to include all all relationship options.
So don't just have one emergency contact one, emergency contact two, with spouse listed on one and not the other. And I would also change it to partner instead of spouse, just because, you know, we're not married.
Been together 20 damn near 23 years now, but yeah, exactly But you know, it's also nice as we are reminded our relationship is older than our bartender. Yeah, I know, um

[18:39] Sorry But it's nice to be able to choose multiple partners as your emergency contact and, And one of the things I think about this is it's not just about what you put on it, right?
It's about what you don't put on it. Exactly.
Because you, if you don't want to get into gender issues, don't include a gender.

[19:00] You don't have to. You don't. You legit don't. There's no reason to include it.
I mean, because you're going to put, hopefully, you're going to put actors where they're the most useful. Yeah.
Now, there's two things with that. is you could consider adding a question so that if a person is assigned a human role, which gender they would prefer to play. Yeah. That gives them the choice.
That gives them the autonomy to say this is the type of role that I'm comfortable in. No. And that's perfectly reasonable and that's also something you can do as part of the hiring process. You can just speak with them. I mean, that's, That's the other thing is you talk to people too.
I know it's a radical idea.

[19:46] Yeah. Well, and you know, I don't know how the big, admittedly, I don't know how the big haunts hire and what their paperwork looks like, but I know every job I go to, every form that I fill out at the doctor's office, I look for which options are available to me.
Yeah. because you can, like you said, exclude by including, you know, bad things.
Yeah, if you have, you know, sex or gender, male, female, and that's it.
Well, that's, and that's the thing here. It's like, I understand that businesses right now might be a little sketchy or a little skittish about taking a stand, quote unquote here.
Yeah. This isn't about taking a stand. This is just about making sure that the people who do apply feel comfortable and welcomed.
Exactly. That's all it is.

[20:37] And that's all I think anybody's really asking for here. And it's like I said, sometimes the way to be more inclusive is to ask fewer questions.
Sometimes the way to be more inclusive is to ask more questions.

[20:48] You know, and I think the mistake, and a lot of haunts me, a lot of businesses make this mistake in general, is they go and they either get the cheapest hiring form they can off the internet and just use that one. Don't actually look at it or think about it.
Yeah.
Or you know they just do what everyone else is doing and not realizing that a form that might work for you know small business 8,972 might not be the best for a haunted attraction which already has a pretty unique hiring situation. Yeah exactly. I mean even completely separate from these issues of private inclusive we're a weird industry when it comes to hiring. The information We need to make a decision about who to hire and who not to hire is completely different than like, you know Saying, you know a delivery company or whatever, you know, we're asking very very different questions and have very different needs, So actually putting just the thought into your hiring forms may be a good first step here. Mm-hmm, Yeah, I completely agree with that and as far as placement of actors I do agree with you that they should be put into, To roles that they are most comfortable with and most suited for yeah.

Inclusive Hiring for Haunts

[22:04] And I've been tinkering with an Excel spreadsheet. I've got to fix some of the formulas, but, That does that that you give, People you know a moniker or something so that you don't know who they are and you fill out the spreadsheet, With the characteristics of the person and the possible placements based on the the character design not based on what you see in front of you. Yeah, and to be clear when we're talking about roles you're comfortable doing, it could be any number of things for some comfort. It could be they don't want to play a certain gender. Right. It could be that they're not comfortable in a masked role. Right. They need a make-up role or they need a unmade-up role at all together. Yeah. Maybe they require seating longer. Maybe they're more comfortable standing. Some weirdos with good backs feel that way. I don't know who these monsters are, but they exist.
Yeah, they may have mobility issues. But they may have mobility issues. They may need to not be in a room them with fog or heavy scents. Might not need to be in a speaking role because they have issues talking and communicating.
They need a silent role.
Exactly.

[23:07] Maybe they're perfectly comfortable slamming that drop panel down and scaring the shit out of people, but aren't comfortable with screaming or doing that, Yeah, well in silent characters is a whole, Whole topic that would be really interesting to talk about except it's silent characters So we might get some you know dead times on that, But yeah, basically making your intake process more inclusive starts with actually thinking about your forms and your whole point about the emergency contact.

[23:36] Why I mean I've never understood why on emergency contact forms they have how do you know this person is yeah that doesn't fucking matter it's my emergency contact it's someone who I know has a phone and can come get my ass exactly, it doesn't look like I trust in an emergency they could be my friend they could be my girlfriend they could be my partner another way my neighbor they could literally be like I would consider seriously putting like our next door neighbor Margaret. Yeah. On any emergency contact form if I had to. Why?
She's always home, she's always by the phone, she's got reliable transportation, and I know as hell she'll be there if I need her. Yeah. I have no relationship with her other than she's my neighbor. Yeah, exactly. But I would legitimately trust her with that.
Yeah. Luckily I've got you two so it's not really necessary, but get the point.
If I needed a second one and it was just one of you, I think Margaret might actually be my next. Yeah. And I have no relationship with her to speak of. Next item, create an anonymous form that can be submitted to report or discuss issues of potential discrimination and to make a plan for dealing with such issues. This is a big one and it's something we've seen in a lot of haunts. Yeah. Where.

Anonymous Form for Reporting Discrimination and DEI Recommendations

[24:49] Where basically something happens and the haunt...
Really doesn't handle it. Well, right and this actually goes back to the episode with Patrick where he says, Make rules. Mm-hmm when you're building your community make the rules put them out there, Let everybody know what the rules are and what the consequences are for breaking them.

[25:12] Yeah, and I and and that's gonna mean as we have found out ourselves Making really difficult decisions. Yeah, We had to let two people go who were great actors fundamentally and were really they're very reliable they're very reliable actors which I mean that reliable pretty much equals good sometimes in this case yeah and we had to let him go because of their behavior yeah we didn't have a choice they broke our rules they broke our standards and everyone else and luckily thankfully others in the group rallied and we actually were able to move on without a hitch. But, God, you know, it's gonna put you in difficult situations. Get ready for that. And those difficult situations are so much easier to handle if you've got the rules ready. Yeah, and if you are, you know, at a loss for how to make a form like this or what it should include, I would recommend going to universities and looking up their DEI departments and seeing what kind of forms are available there. Yeah, and that's a good point is if you find any DEI professionals out there, believe me, they will be very happy to tell you where you can go to get these forms, where you can get this information. They, love talking about this, trust me. Yeah, exactly. DEI, this is, they live for it.
I mean, yeah, you might be a complete stranger, trust me, they'll talk to you.

[26:39] They live for this shit. Yeah. All right, so next up is a really easy one. You could do this today. If you have group chats, include nicknames and pronouns on, it. Don't tell people that they have to do it, but if the upper management and leadership does it, others below you are going to follow. You know, we actually...
I'm sorry, go ahead. No, no, no. Sorry, I didn't... I forgot you had a little bit more in that sentence.
No, no, it's okay. It's gone now. That's the way my brain works. Fine, that's fair.
Well, and the reason we're mentioning this one specifically is we've actually She's seen this work firsthand exactly not with her haunt, but I'm Ellie's yarn store There's a craft chat which has a lot of fucking people on it now. It does it's gotten rather large, It has but she has made an inclusive space and it has grown because of it Yeah, and one of the things that we do is we allow everyone to set their own nickname and that's been a thing for a long time. Yeah but recently, She added her pronouns, Ellie added her pronouns to her name.
Yeah. You did the same. I did the same.
And now pretty much everyone has done it. Yeah And we're a few people have and there's a few people in there that either don't want to for reasons Reason, they're and there's a few people who i'm pretty sure don't actually look at the chat. Yeah.

Chat Noise and Muting

[28:02] I'm, pretty sure that we're just muted Which I would not fault them at all. Uh, no, I would completely understand that It's like we want to be supportive by saying in the chat, but we're not gonna look at you fuckers ever, Yeah, we're only going to look at you actual craft chat time, maybe, if you're lucky.
Yeah, exactly.
And you know what? I totally get that. The chat can get noisy at very inopportune times, because apparently some people in this chat are the worst monsters of all time, mourning people.
Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, no, it's...

[28:37] But yeah, no, this is an actual easy one to do, is let people set their names in your group chats.
People add their make it easy so that people add add their pronouns and add any other information that might be helpful yeah and once again if top management does it if the lieutenant the owners the lieutenants and so forth do it others will follow organically yeah and once again if someone doesn't want to do it don't force them to do it it's not worth it there could be a myriad of reasons why someone doesn't want to I mean they could be wrestling with their own identity shit. They might not be comfortable thinking about in that space. Understood.
Don't put it in there. Yeah, don't force anyone to do it. Don't make it a requirement, just make it an option. Make it an option and make the people who choose to do it not feel like freaks for doing it. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Your leaders lead the way. Yeah, and if enough leaders do it, especially if like one of the things I think is interesting is I'm extremely Cisgender I present male other than the long hair. I present male. I am male. I just I'm cisgender, Heterosexual, but I did it I included the he him, Yeah, nobody was me. I was in zero danger of ever being misgendered Negative danger of it, but the fact that I did it helped normalize it. Yeah, it was the goal exactly.

[30:00] Other than like construction workers. Yeah Way way way way more feminine when I was in college a younger and I didn't have the goatee and, Also as I men that these hips don't lie. They don't I got that sashay.

Making Bathrooms Non-Gendered and Understanding Local Regulations

[30:24] No, but no, but no seriousness I did it to help normalize it Yeah, I didn't have to no one ever misgendered me I don't think anyone ever will, not like since construction workers in South Carolina 20 plus years ago. Yeah, All right, so next item is if possible and legal, make bathrooms non-gendered for customers and employees. That's part one of this. We'll get to part two in a minute. Your local regulations are going to vary here, and this is something we've run up against a few times. There have been a few places where they will come in and inspect and make sure you have gendered bathrooms once, and they're totally free just to fuck with the signs afterward. Yep, yep, totally. Yeah, Ignore the fact the signs held up a duct tape, you know, we know places that have done this so understand your local regulations.

[31:19] And then like I said when the inspector left they took the signs down and put the unisex back, Because if you have bathrooms that are just one stall, yeah, Why the fuck are they gendered in the first place? Exactly. That doesn't mean anything. I'm a guy once again I don't know. So here's my thing, I think haunting, especially among actors, is still very, very much a male dominated.
So if you have two bathrooms and you make them gendered, one for women, one for men, That means 80% of your crew are using one bathroom and 20% are using the other, probably.
That's a long fucking line. This is a bit like how I've been reading about how at Taylor Swift concerts, The crowd has just been taking over the men's restrooms. Yeah, exactly, Because that's there's 99 women. Yeah, and that's basically what we've done in our work up until recently um, there was only, One male employee in the building.

[32:22] And they were mostly at their other office. So if it was empty we just went, you know. This really does make me pine for Europe because our trips to Europe, in particular the mainland Europe, they do bathrooms so differently. Like you go into like a store restroom here, you've got these sketchy-ass looking stalls, you know, gaps everywhere, terrible lighting and all.

[32:50] This, and meanwhile you go like when we went, we're in Budapest for example, we went to those public restrooms near the river, man, each fucking bathroom felt like a... it was a... it felt like a safe. Like an individual's... It was a room with a floor...
The door went all the way to the floor and all the way to the top of the frame, brick all around. You could be doing any kind of horrible shit you wanted in that room, nobody'd ever know. Yeah. I mean, it's not like the stalls here where everything feels super sketchy, so I mean, there's no reason a bathroom like that that ever has to be gendered. Right. You know, ever. Because, you know, if anybody else is in that room, they were allowed in. Yeah. So yeah, it's one of those situations where I really do pine for that. But if you can make non-gendered restrooms, that's a good start. And especially, like I said, considering you're not gonna have a 50-50 mix of actors. So in that space, it makes sense to make it so that if the restroom is empty and someone needs to pee, they, can go pee. Yes and the second part of this is include tampons and pads in all all bathrooms and dressing rooms.

Include Tampons and Pads in All Bathrooms and Dressing Rooms

[34:00] Yeah, this is a simple one. And I don't know why it isn't common or common.
Because especially when you're dealing with the employees, but also I think this is a good idea and obviously customer facing bathrooms too. Yeah. But the main thing there is you don't know, definitively what people are working with under their clothes. Yeah. To try to make this as...
It's not your business. It's not your business. You don't know and you don't need to know.
Right, you probably don't want to know yeah, honestly, and so yeah There are plenty of people who are male presenting that would look absolutely out of place, If they went into the women's restroom, you know.

Bathroom Inclusivity: Stocking Supplies for All Genders

[34:44] That had do not have penises Yeah, and yeah pads and tampons, etc. It might be useful, you know, I'm not saying you have to put like a giant thing of them in there No, just have them available. And the other thing is this if people are there for extended periods of time, like actors are, you can get hit with a surprise.
And especially if you are at a haunt where the vast majority of actors are male, then it's going to be tough for them to find supplies in an emergency situation.
It makes sense to have it in the bathroom to give it away.
It really just makes sense.
It's not only inclusive, but it makes common sense, and it ensures that that actor who got a surprise visit doesn't have to run home.
Yeah. I mean most Haunts are not in a space where they can pop to the corner store and be back in five minutes. Right. So yeah this lets the actor run to the bathroom and get back on the floor and get working again. It's better all around.

[35:49] Um, and we did try to think of something that was specific to um to to penis havers and you know, And we couldn't come up with much. No If you have any ideas, yeah, if you if you identify as male, um, let us know what can be included in a bathroom To help you feel more included. I I have a I identify as male and I couldn't think of shit. So Please let us know. How can I come? How can we get on Twitter? How can we get on Facebook?
Da da da da da da da. All right, next up.

[36:23] Consider having an inclusivity awareness night. I thought this was an interesting one you came up with. This one's yours.
You should be taking it. This one was pretty original to you. Well, by inviting people intentionally going back to the episode with Patrick, you're reaching out to those communities that often feel excluded. Yeah.
Because I know that if friends want to hang out with me, they need to send me a personal invite.
Yeah, this basically we play by vampire rules.
Yes.
We have to be invited directly into the home. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah. And not only by doing this, not only are you doing like, it's going to be great marketing, because it's press release, because it's a special night.
Yeah. The month to do it, obviously, would be June, especially.
Yeah uh you're going to make new customers and you may find new employees too out of this just, because if you are out about what you're going to be inclusive with then people are going to come yeah yeah and in a similar vein to that is the hosting parties and having events like that we've been talking about. So the main thing here is, like you said, trying to be active with the recruitment. And that can look like a lot of things, to be honest with you. If you have.

Active Recruitment: Being in the Spaces Where Diversity Exists

[37:45] You know, gay clubs or gay places, places that are established for the gay community, you can advertise and promote there. And believe me, especially if you're hiring and you're looking this is part of your hiring process. Yeah, they will be very welcoming to the pitch of you wanting to hire them. And this also goes for black communities too. Yeah, and black communities.
And you know, basically any, once again, if you want diversity, you have to be in the places those people are. Whatever group of people specifically you're reaching out to at that moment, you need to be in the space they already are. You can't expect them to come to you. No, you have to reach out because otherwise they're not going to know you're interested. Yeah, exactly.
And it's very, very difficult. All that stuff above is great, but it's very tough without some kind of direct action. Right, exactly. For them to get to know.
Exactly to know that they're supposed to be looking for these things. Yeah, And one quick note on the parties the way that they do it at my job is that, Only the people who are part of that community are invited to these parties, It is a place where we can let our hair down. We can bear around each other.

Discussing the Importance of Inclusivity and Charitable Donations

[39:08] Sorry, I get that joke one time crystal cutter hair recently looks very good Yeah, but now her hair is it's not short short, but it's much shorter. So now I get the joke Why not laying your head out? That's it one time. I'm done That's the only time I'm allowed. I think the rest I get and I'd get murdered, Yeah, but you know, it's it feels special to have a party just for you. Yeah.

[39:31] So that's all I wanted to add to that Yeah, but you know the main thing here and the easy that the thing that I think really to hone in on right now is the, outreach directly to those communities. You've got to go to them rather than expecting them to come to you. Exactly. And that's only fair. And so yeah, all this, and one thing we talked about previously was promoting donations to inclusive organizations. We talked about Don't Be a Monster, we talked about Honest Against Hate, those type of organizations. And yeah, I know Don't Be a Monster is technically anti-bullying, but people who were bullied are often bullied for these issues. Yeah. So even though I know it's anti-bullying, it still to me seems to be, you know... Yeah. It's still an inclusivity thing to me. Yeah. There are a lot of possibilities for for non-profit donations. Just look at what you're interested in. I'm positive you'll find it. Yeah. There's tons of great charities.
Ideally, I always tell Haunts, when you're looking for charities, try to find something local. Yeah. As local as you can get. Exactly. Because that's what builds the goodwill that you really need which is that community goodwill. Mm-hmm. Yeah, because here in New Orleans we've got several ones specifically for.

[40:51] I think it's for trans kids who are kicked out of their homes for being trans. Yeah.
And, I mean, New Orleans obviously is going to be loaded with charities in this.
But even if you're in a rural area where it might not seem possible, I guarantee you there's a state organization that's doing some work.
I guarantee you there's probably something that's at least county or citywide that's doing some kind of work in this space.

Finding Local Charities for Inclusivity Outreach

[41:17] And you can reach out to them. I mean, it would be mind-blowing for there not to be even at least something on the state level. Mm-hmm. Exactly. I, Really think that would be your outreach. Yeah, and, All right. Now we got to talk about the elephant in the room. Yeah.

[41:35] We've all heard the whole go woke go broke. Hey, I don't think any of this is like super woke, No, I don't think inclusivity is woke and I doubly think that in the haunt industry, industry and I'll get into why I think that in a little bit but basically look you know if you're worried about inclusivity hurting your business we've not seen that the case at Ellie's Yarn Store right but granted we're in New Orleans yeah so our situation is different but we are in like a we're, removed from the fun part of New Orleans yeah I mean and as we found out there's Some homophobic shit going on in the area around us. Yeah, it doesn't directly racist and racist, but that's a whole Lot of issue. We're not here to call out other businesses. Yeah, I did bad things, But yeah, basically Creating an include if you do inclusivity, right? Mm-hmm. It's almost like you did nothing at all, Yeah, it's weird as it sounds. Yeah, because Because we talked about like going back to the hiring forms.
If you do it right, it's very subtle, it's blinking, you miss it stuff, but it means so much to the people it's targeted to.
But like someone like me who's cisgender and if I weren't, you know, adjacent to this community already, I would just blow right the fuck past it and not think about it.
And inclusivity statement, you know, on a website, once again, that's something that people who don't need it will blow right by.

Inclusivity in Haunted Houses Shouldn't Be Performative

[43:04] But the people who it means the most to will notice it. You know, we're not...
I don't think every haunt should be adorned in rainbows and in LGBTQ pride.
I think that would be a little weird, eh?
Yeah. Probably not totally appropriate either.
It depends on who's running it. That's true.
And who's, you know, if you're... The intent behind it. Yeah. Yeah.
Go ahead. Sorry. No, it's okay. I wouldn't mind like if there is a wall of flags and I've been in some Hollands that have a wall of flags, Yeah that are tattered and like distressed and stuff. I would like to be included in those flags. Yeah, you know It makes sense.
So, yeah, you know, the main thing here is I don't believe Go Broke is real. No.
I think the only company that's actually been harmed in any way was Bud Light, and that, was a total misread of their market. Yeah.
I mean, actually, no, it was a correct read of their market because they were trying to look past it because their market's demographic dead end.
But I think they underestimated the backlash that their core market would have to it.
I mean, to be fair, it was an extreme reaction.
It was.
Over a very silly thing, ultimately. Yeah.

[44:23] But the point remains, being inclusive does not have to be performative.
In fact, it shouldn't be performative. No, it has to be intentional.
You have to go into it with the intent of making an inclusive space.
Yeah, and like I said, a lot of places do the performative bit.
They'll put, we celebrate pride on this side.
And then do absolutely fuck all of the work.
Exactly.
We're trying to do the opposite of that. We're trying to do the work and not be over the top about it.
Exactly. And like, yeah.
I think that's really it. Yeah, that's it.
You don't have to be and should not be performative about this. No.
And here's the thing and kind of the final thought I had about this.
And once again, I know the white cisgender heterosexual guy going to talk about these issues. Sorry. I'm fully aware and I'm fully self-conscious about it. I know. And we may not be getting everything right. Oh absolutely. I know we're not getting everything right.
Yeah. It's impossible. Well yeah. And it's like a really big topic to cover in an hour. These are just like little bite-sized takeaways. Little low-hanging fruits we're trying to have people grab at.
Yeah. Here's the thing. The haunt industry has always been the space and the refuge for the weird, the outcast, the people...
Well, it's had the reputation for that. It's had the reputation for that.
And in many ways it has been that space. for many such people it has been.

[45:52] So that means the people you're going to attract you're going to get people of every walk of life.

[45:59] The only I mean they might the only thing they're going to have in common realistically, Is they do tend to be white?
Because That's there's a lot of we've discussed that in the past how there's a lot of complexity there, um They're gonna be white. They're gonna be younger, um, and they're getting to be increasingly I think I think the gender balance is getting better but it's happening slowly.
But regardless, you're going to get people who are wealthy, you're going to get people who are poor.
You're going to get people who are on all spaces of the political spectrum, the ideological spectrum, from all the socioeconomic backgrounds, and you're going to get people of all sexualities.
And finding a way to make a space that accepts all of them and unites them for a common mission, is important and it's difficult it is it's difficult and I think very much the point of this is it requires forethought you have to be thinking about it and you have to be working at it every step of the way yeah and I and to me that's like been the frustrating that's not necessarily that haunts don't want to be inclusive right they just don't think about it yeah they kind of hope it'll Just make it happen, get through it all in the house.
Well, and you know, I'm, I mean, I'm thinking of, one of the things that Ellie has done really well is she has.

Supporting Diversity in the Industry

[47:27] Reached out specifically to the LGBTQ plus and BIPOC dyers for her specialty yarn.
And I think that Hans could do that with like costume designers.
Like, don't forget that this isn't just about supporting the people who come and work for you, it's about supporting an industry that's more diverse.
So seek out, you know, costume designers, builders, any HR, admin stuff you need, from people that you want in your community.

[48:04] Yeah, I agree with that. And once again, one of the things that Patrick talked about think was so good was that if the top of your structure is diverse, you know, the rest of your employees are going to be diverse.
And your customers will be too. Exactly. And here's the thing, we are a bulk industry. Haunts survive by getting as many people through those doors as possible. Yeah. Why risk turning a significant chunk of your potential audience away when all it takes is a little thought and a little planning and you can make it a place that everybody wants to be. Everyone wants to go.
Everyone feels safe. Exactly. That's just good business. Well on that note everyone, hope that these ideas meant something to you. Hope there was something here you're able to take with you. I think honestly, because like I said, like you said, well you said it, we're just trying to find a little low-hanging fruits here.
We're trying to find easy things you can do that might be very impactful to someone else. And once again, stuff that's not performative. But if you have suggestions on what other simple steps could take, we know we didn't get them all? Nope. No chance in hell. It's a 50-minute podcast, people. Please let us know, hauntweekly.com or hauntweekly.com on Twitter, hauntweekly.com on Facebook and youtube.com slash hauntweekly.com.
We'd love to hear your thoughts and ideas in this space. We know that there's plenty more out there, and this probably is going to warrant a sequel at some point. Yeah. Please do let us know. But.

[49:33] Until next time, I'm Jonathan. I'm Crystal. And this is Haunt Weekly episode 395, talking about seven ways to be seven simple ways to be make your home more inclusive. We will see you next week with episode 396 which is divisible by four which means it's time to do the news. And boy howdy do we have some news. We actually have a fair amount of news to go around so we will see you then.
Spoiler! The mall of America is involved in the news episode. It's gonna be interesting. Stick around then.