[0:22] Hello everyone, I'm Jonathan. I'm Crystal. And this is Haunt Weekly, a weekly podcast for the haunted attraction and entertainment industry, whether you're an actor, owner, or just plain aficionado, we aim to be a podcast for you. And we return to you this week not in what I would describe as ideal shape. Yeah. We have had an interesting week. We will discuss more of that in just a minute or two. And it concludes to say that I am sitting here recording this in a sling currently, just to give you an idea of how the past week has gone. So definitely get ready for that. But also, while you're around, check out all the other places we exist, including Halt Weekly.com, Halt Weekly on Facebook, YouTube.com slash Halt Weekly, and wherever you get your podcast from. All right.

[1:10] So we're back on our regular schedule again, doing pretty good with it. Now that the holidays are in a rearview mirror, but we've not been able to keep one promise. We wanted to have something every week to talk about that we did for the haunt. Yeah. And last week we don't. We don't. We did, like, straighten up our offices, and I got a lot of haunty stuff together out of mine. So that... And I found... This is going to be something I've straightened my office up, and I found a lot of tools that somehow ended up here. Well, yes, your office does seem to be a black hole for those. Yeah, I mean, I guess it's like we're working on something. I come in to look something up or do something and it just gets abandoned here. So I found our tools, especially our hand tools. Yeah, so I guess it kind of counts. It kind of counts. But no, the real reason nothing productive got done was because last week it snowed nine inches in New Orleans. Yeah. First off, I guess Crystal's superpower is dead or it was just overpowered by that. I don't know. Yeah. But...

[2:15] Yeah, we got literally nine inches of snow. I know, I measured it. Yeah, and some areas of the city got a foot. Yeah. Yeah, and I didn't measure it, but when I measured it, I made a penis joke about it on Facebook. So, you know, because I'm mature. Yes. But, yeah, and that, we ended up having to really focus on keeping our house safe. Like, if you live in a northern climb, you don't have to worry about these issues like we do. Our homes are built to be cool and heat not warm and cold weather right um and in new orleans like a good example the problem is all of the plumbing underneath the houses is totally exposed yeah not a heated crawl space no and our our house is about a couple feet off the ground i think i think i think the actual house is three feet off the ground uh two and a half feet to the lip to come in heavily what it is i think so that's a lot of area for cold wind and crap to get into so one of the first things we did do is we took all the empty buckets we had them blocked it off so wind couldn't just like freely blow underneath the house yeah that i think helps some obviously you run the taps you do that um but yeah we could not get to the pipes adequately to cover them and insulate them yeah and realistically after this snowfall and this deep of a cold it got down to like 18 degrees Fahrenheit. Yeah.

[3:36] I don't know if, It's necessary. It's necessary because I don't think we're going to get worse than this in our time with the house. Yeah, I hope not. Unless climate change keeps throwing us more screwballs, you know. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, it may be worth it, but honestly, we need to have the plumbing redone anyway because it's just antiquated. I mean. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know what metals those are, and I am scared to find out. Mm-hmm. I probably should do a, I think we did do a lead testing. Did not find lead in our water. Right. There was not lead in the water. But I still don't like all the other metals either.

[4:11] I mean, that lens is especially bad. I get it. But the other metals in the water are not good either, you know? Yeah. I don't necessarily want stainless steel on my drinking water either, you know? I'm pretty sure they're copper. Pretty sure.

[4:23] But regardless, yeah, I could see at some point renovating the PVC. We have other things that we need to do with that. Yeah, exactly. That are more urgent. And it's funny because today we got an offer for using our home equity to do renovations. And I'm like, no. No. No, no, no, no, no, no. Maybe. Well, the problem is, like, I like not having a note for things. Like, every time we get rid of the car note, it's like, let's just drive this son of a bitch until it's falling apart around us. Like, it's a Hanna-Barbera cartoon. Yes. And I do not want another car note, motherfuckers. Yeah i know and we've only got five more years on the house um but that said we do have some we do have some some renovations that we need to look at yeah we do i agree so anyways we're off track now but that's the reason we didn't get any hot work done was the snow and then coupled by the fact that i managed to tweak my shoulder slash upper bicep yeah not in the snow no not anyway cool no no this was like friday after the snow was gone no it's totally gone i was loading up a 12 pack into sodas into the fridge and i just apparently i held it at an awkward angle and my shoulder just popped.

[5:45] Well, you have notoriously lose shoulders because they've always popped in and out of socket. But it's never hurt. Right. This was the first time I've actually been in pain. It used to be I could just pop my shoulders in and out of socket like some kind of circus freak. Really great for making people grossed out in martial arts class.

[6:03] But anyway, so I'm dealing also with a hurt shoulder. I can't pick up very heavy things with that.

[6:09] I have full range of motion, which is good. but i i can't you know carry heavy things with it right now so that's why i suspect it's.

[6:19] More bicep than than rotary cover anything like that but anyways so that's been the story of our week it's been a rough week not gonna lie but glad to be back glad to be here and this week we are talking about to haunt or i should it should be to be haunted or not to be haunted yeah that would probably be a little more clear because when i saw the title i'm like are we talking about next year or this year and whether or not we're going to continue after okay fine topic title change no no but anyways uh so basically we're going to look at the phenomenon of haunted attractions saying that they are actually haunted yeah and we're going to get more into that in just a minute but before that every week we do try to ask a question and we and last week we asked the fun one we said what is your best haunt build what build are you the most proud of and man y'all came through yeah christian rousseau said it was a serial killer's house i put together a whole profile on who he was and why he killed everything in the house pointed to it it had a quote on the walls that also pointed to his mentality i won't share it here because i'm selfish and want to use it again haha you know fair point fair play to you i mean does sound awesome and i love the fact that he was thinking about all the details and how it ties into the character.

[7:40] And the story. And the story. Yeah, basically making sure... Basically, you can tell this is creating the character and the story first and building the set to match that rather than what a lot of haunts do, which is the other way around. Yeah.

[7:53] Chris Gay said, I am still in love with the cemetery scene I built the first year of my haunt, but I learned from the experience because my nightly sweep teardown took way too long and other scenes suffered a bit it as I budgeted too much time and effects budget on that one scene that is a classic trap yeah I understand that so much I will say that I think one of the reasons I have gotten better at that was actually art school because they teach you to not focus on the piece of the the drawing or the painting or whatever you're doing, all the time and to spread it out and to bring up everything at the same point, so you can do all the rooms at the same level and like if you're trying to do a show or something we can eat 20 paintings or something like that they also teach you to not just get stuck on one if one's problematic you just move to the next you pick up something else you know you don't waste time in the mud and they teach you to that the writers too because if a paragraph's fucking with you if something's really screwing with you and you lost your flow just skip it come back to it yeah you might not need that paragraph that paragraph may be.

[9:06] A dead end yeah but i totally understand that because i have done it plenty of times yeah and and when we're talking high might like yeah we'll never do this but the truth is you look at our budget we absolutely have done oh yeah no there are there are a few rooms in the haunt that are like super well decorated and two they were like yeah this will do no all right all right joe singletary said we once did a zombie research facility theme with an elevator quote unquote yes that took the guests down to the underground we use sliding closet doors for entry and exit and a tv playing a high res design elevator video it was heartening to overhear many guests saying how they felt as if they were on a real elevator someday i want to use a similar build as an airlock to board the spaceship nostromo in space no one can hear you scream this is an excellent example of how doing something simple can be so effective yeah i mean because like when i think of elevators slash elevators i remember uh rise the new one they added last year yeah uh 13th gate obviously is famous with their elevators, We had a few others, but they've all involved, like, pneumatics and things to move it around.

[10:25] And the one we did without pneumatics was actually the 13th Gate Escape. And one of the games, they had to spy one. We had to get into an elevator and solve a puzzle in the elevator, and then the elevator went down and dinged in the next room. Yes. And it was no pneumatics or anything. It was all done like what Joe's described here. And it was still remarkably effective without all that. Yeah. It's amazing what you can do with an optical illusion. All right, Reggie Wood, and this is short and sweet, my Jeepers Creepers truck, which honestly this comment made me realize I have not seen Jeepers Creepers. I really thought I had. Yeah. But I'm like, I don't remember a truck, and I was thinking of a different movie. I need to watch Jeepers Creepers at some point, apparently. Yeah. Do you want to go ahead and take the next one? Yeah, sure. Since it was really short.

[11:11] And finally, Kevin Hopkins, last season we made a 6x10 mausoleum on a moving frame with airbags like a elevator inside was an actor dross is a vampire hunter instructing the group how to hold the handles on the ornate casket of the vampire he trapped inside the knocker and the casket starts thumping and the whole room lifts and jostles as fog films uh fog from around the lid, and it is announced that rosalind the vampire has escaped and they're on their own have to flee, a first scene uh that they set up in the haunt and basically a big moment to get people go into that. Typed up, yeah. That sounds awesome. I'm curious how that works with throughput, but if you have a large enough room in that, I bet it can work just fine. It's all going to be a matter of balancing all the elements together. Well, yeah, and we also don't know how big Kevin's haunt is. Yeah, it's true. Alright, well, this week's question of the week is related to this episode. Is your haunted attraction actually haunted if so do you promote it as such or do you promote it as such even if it's not yeah let us know hauntweekly.com hauntweekly facebook youtube.com slash hauntweekly all the places we exist please drop us a line all right so this week we're going to start with our cards firmly on the tape yes we want to be very clear about where we're coming from and where the idea for this episode came from i think that's two very important things to get through.

[12:40] We are both strong skeptics of the paranormal. Yeah.

[12:46] Or the supernatural in this case. Yeah, I think that's fair to say. Now, I am going to put in a caveat here. Okay. That knowing people who believe in the paranormal, they absolutely believe it. Oh, yeah, I'm not accusing anyone of lying. Right. No, no, no. I mean, okay, I'm accusing some people of lying. It's like five people and they all work in the French Quarter. Yeah, I know. So, but, and it's all a business strategy at that point, which is something we'll get into. But no, for the people who believe in paranormal stuff, they absolutely believe it. They are like as sure that it exists as I am that it doesn't. And you know what? In this crazy world, we're all just looking for meaning and the meaningless void that is space and time. Yeah. Yeah, fine. If that brings you comfort, go for it. Yeah. I'm not, I'm not even judging at all. No. But that said, the reason we're talking about it is many haunts, in my estimation, roughly less than half, maybe, advertise themselves as being actually haunted in some way.

[13:53] And so what we're doing with this episode is we're focusing really on it more as an advertising strategy, a marketing strategy, and a business strategy. We're not weighing in on whether the hauntings are real or not. No. Like I said, we're skeptics, but totally respect the people who do believe it and understand that you're just as sure as we are. Like you said, that's all that was well put.

[14:15] So, yeah, basically, though, what this means is since we're looking at it from a marketing perspective, kind of like everyone has to play skeptic here. Yeah. Just because, you know, it's a marketing thing. You should be skeptical of all marketing things. And I say that as someone who holds a degree in advertising. and i'm doing advertising and marketing right now so yeah you should definitely treat anything marketing with a healthy degree of skepticism is what i'm saying yeah including claims of it being haunted because like i said this is marketing this is not an actual comment on the supernatural paranormal life after death ghosts goblins dungeons dragons um i think that's a little different oh that's okay something different anything like that all right so cards on the table there second cards on the table moment where we got the idea from um this is an article by leanne coloran at cnn even though the article actually points to a new zealand website it's a cnn article the owner of a west sussex mansion says he can't sell the property after adele said the place was haunted.

[15:26] Now, I found this link as part of my normal Google alerts that I get for the news episodes we do. Right. It's ongoing constantly. I'm always looking out for this stuff. And I got that one, and I put it in the chat, because even though it deals with, you know, supernatural, paranormal, whatever, and we don't usually do those in the news. Right. It's a light time of year, and that might have been something kind of mildly amusing to throw in at the end. Yeah. But then I started thinking about it. You see, the thing about it is this.

[15:56] Um adele only lived at the mansion for six months in 2012 in 2012 yeah so 13 years ago adele rented this very nice mansion in west sussex for six months now the owner has been trying to sell this place since before then by all accounts and in fact he just took it off the market so adele could rent it out for that time and then when she left it was back on the market again However, while Adele was there, she gave CNN's Anderson Cooper a tour of the house. Right. Which is kind of a rich relocation. Hey, look at this nice house I have, and I'll be in for the next three months. Yeah. That's a little weird. I'm just saying. I mean, next thing you know, we're going to be giving Anderson Cooper tours of an Airbnb. What the fuck? Yeah, but I mean, so the thing is, is like, she lived there, she gave a tour of the place, and they still can't sell it. Yeah. Like, that is a little weird, because that seems like it would be a more famous house to be able to sell. Dell, to my knowledge, is still at least reasonably well-liked. Yeah. It's not like, ew, the Dell was there, no. No. It's not like the mansion that diddy parties happened or anything. It shouldn't be cursed because of the person that lived there.

[17:10] Yeah, and to be clear, when she talked to Anderson Cooper, she never said the word haunted. No. She never said it was haunted, but she did talk about spooky things and weird things that happened there, and the internet headlines fucking ran with it. They said haunted all up in this bitch. They were convinced Adele thought it was haunted, even though, once again, she never said the word. Right, and we've actually talked about Zelle listings and things where they gave haunted tours of houses that were supposedly haunted. It's, and admittedly, we have a slightly weird perspective on it, living in New Orleans. Yeah. Because one of our favorite games to do, and this is true, is when we do day drinking in the French Quarter. Yeah. We go around and we spot all the for sale signs that say haunted and not haunted. Because you will see both if you roam around the French Quarter. Yes, you will. And so it's kind of like a weird little game while we're just roaming around the French Quarter to keep spotting the signs so you can catch the most as we're going from place to place. Usually you see about a 50-50 split between them but I think the Haunted Ones have been coming out on top because I think there might be enough of macabre fascination to make the Haunted Ones more valuable in French Quarter specifically. Yeah, because it is New Orleans and that's one of the reasons tourists come here.

[18:35] But now in the year of our Lord 2025 the owner is seeking permission to turn it into apartments because they have been completely unable to sell it and here's the thing i don't really think adele maybe mentioning the mansion might be kind of sort of a little bit haunted is the problem no it's like a five million pound mansion in west sussex it's very expensive um admittedly i don't know much about west sussex, but it seems like a big ask you know what i mean to sell that and if it and he was having trouble selling it before adele moved in had trouble after it's not you know what i mean yeah it doesn't feel like um adele in haunting is the problem right um so yeah but this did get me thinking about the drawbacks of a location being haunted and i see crystal's already done her instinct is pulling up real estate listings in west sussex you mentioned buying property new New Orleans and anywhere, Crystal's looking up at what? Yeah. Like instant. She should have been a realtor, honestly. She missed her true calling. Yeah, well...

[19:48] It has a history with me that's all yeah that's all i'm gonna say with that but yeah so wanted to have a quick chat today about the actual benefits slash drawbacks to quote-unquote being haunted and promoting yourself as such now first off who can reasonably slash legitimately claim to be haunted you probably need a realistic claim of some kind yeah like you're in a really old building where something tragic happened. There were tragic deaths. Oh, Jesus Christ. You know, it's funny because we have been, I think, to three or four, quote-unquote, haunted hotels. Yeah. And each and every one of them claimed to be actually haunted. Yes. And indeed, in all cases, they were like really old hotels. Mm-hmm. Was it Baytown, the one we went to in Texas on the way out because we were coming back from Houston?

[20:39] I don't know. I don't remember where it was. It was right on the border. It was probably Baytown. Um but yeah that one was a building from like the 1800s or sometime and yeah okay there by yourself huh i think you stayed there by yourself no i didn't okay there was a haunted attraction we went through oh okay it was the one the actors didn't realize we were in the haunt the poor guys oh yeah that wasn't in baytown but i know which one you're talking yeah i don't remember what town it was um yeah but no they so yeah you've got an old enough building probably somebody died in at some point, you might be able to at least make some kind of claim there. However, that also... I will also say we have seen haunted trails do it, claiming that the woods are haunted. Yeah. Turns out woods are pretty old, too, so that might work. Yeah, and like wars and stuff take place there. Yeah, and you know... You're not going to, like, the thing about it is it's, like, so easy to come up with ghost stories and horror stories in New Orleans.

[21:42] Because you crack any book or look up any website about the history of New Orleans, it's basically, okay, how are we getting fucked over today? It's just the entire history of the city. It's everything trying to fuck us over in New Orleans going, eh, I'll drink to that and staying around. Maybe we shouldn't sometimes. But the point is, you know, any patch of land, if you look hard enough and go back far enough, something happened. Yeah. That was probably a little bit kind of sort of messed up. I remember one was supposed to be haunted by the ghost of moonshiners. I'm trying to remember some of the Mississippi ones, I think. But they talked about the moonshiners that used to work in the area and how they died in a shootout with the police. And I don't know if any of that's true. I kind of doubt it. Yeah. They're trying to pull a Bonnie and Clyde on us, but whatever. You know, if it's an old historic building or it's an interesting enough patch of woods, I think you can make the legitimate claim. The Galveston haunted house we went to actually has a full story that involves the history of the city. Yeah, and that one was actually really interesting, a good use of this, I think. Yeah, because the building, apparently, the hurricane of 1890, what was it? When was the Galveston hurricane? It was like 1890-something. It was like before 1900.

[23:08] I'm trying to remember what it is. She's looking it up. But anyways, the hurricane hit and wiped out like 90-plus percent of the buildings on the island. And the building they were in was you survived or at least the area the building was in survived and was used as the morgue for the dead and this was an era before you got like three-day hurricane warnings and so basically everyone was on the island you know when it hit until they were of course swept out the sea in a lot of cases right um and it's unfortunate and it's a tragic story but it is 120 plus years old now so that's also something we're gonna be intent having on in a minute but the main thing i'm trying to get at is if you're just in 1900 was the year okay so i was almost exactly right um.

[24:03] If you just built a new metal building on a random plot of land with no historical significance, it's going to be kind of tough to argue you're haunted. Yeah. I'm just saying, if you're using a traditional warehouse in a warehouse district, nothing special will happen. Right, unless you had some kind of murder or, you know. Or like the mortuary locally, of course, claims to be haunted because they're in an actual mortuary. What intersection did the location have with deaths either multiple or famous? I don't know because I was just thinking about that. Because when people get there, they're already dead. So I don't know what the actual history is that makes it a haunted mortuary. If I were going to worry about hauntings, I'd be less worried about the mortuary and more about the cemetery next door. That's where the actual bodies are. Yeah. Just saying that that seems like mortuary was just a pass through. Yeah, kind of like a nail through this house in Wessex. Yeah.

[25:08] Oh, man. So, yeah, basically, if you have some kind of legitimate claim, you almost certainly can make this argument. Now, if you're going to do this and we're going to urge caution on it in a little bit, what would I as a potential customer expect? Well, the first thing we just talked about, you need some kind of realistic claim. If I go and look into the history of this and find out, oh, yeah, no, no, no, this is nothing. This was, you know, this was a 7-Eleven that they just tore down and built a haunted house on it. You know, I'm going to be slightly miffed. Yeah. Like I said, typically best to use it.

[25:52] But, yeah, what I need from you is to tell me, A, why are you haunted?

[25:59] What happened, when, and why. In fact, technically it should be the who, what, when, when, or why, how thing. Yeah, that we've talked about before. Yeah, we have. So basically, why are you haunted? What happened to make this place, this place in particular, especially essential for ghosts? Yeah. Why would I believe that this place is haunted? Second, I want to meet these fuckers. Who are the ghosts? Yeah. What are their names? What are their stories? What are they doing? And can I look them up and find a Wikipedia on them? Yeah. And your property. Or anything about it. Yeah. Really. Because you've got to remember, one of the things is, if you're going to claim to be haunted, your ghosts are not literally, but figuratively, characters in your haunt now. Yeah. Yeah, you probably shouldn't dress an actor up in them, especially if they were real people and real tragedies happen there. But you have to understand that this is now a character in your haunt right and i would stay away from anything very recent because there are things that happen that are recent there was a whole episode that we talked about how we went to a a haunt it promoted itself as a haunted attraction but it was really a paranormal experience and it was in a murder that at that time was less than, I think, 10 years old. Yeah.

[27:25] Yeah. And, in fact, we had friends who knew the victim personally. Yeah, and were upset by us talking about it. And not upset at us, for the record. No, no, no. They were upset that it happened. We talked with very condemning terms. Yeah. But when we started talking about it, they found out about it, and they got pissed. And they reached out to news outlets, and it was a whole big thing. Yeah, it became a whole big thing for, like, three weeks here in the city. That we apparently kicked off because we're the only locals that ever go on French Quarter Haunt tours is what I've learned in this. Yeah, well, you know.

[28:04] And I'll never forget the moment we realized what was going on. We looked at each other and we both know the others. What the fuck? Yeah. We picked it up at like the exact same millisecond. What was going on? It was like, the fuck? Yeah. Everything got a little dolly on this in the moment. Yeah. We hadn't even started drinking by that point. No. No, no, no. It's very unwise to go drinking before the walking tour. This is some advice here. You go drink it after it. Just trust me. It makes life so much easier. Okay, so, like I said, the ghosts are characters. Now, next, what can I expect? What do these ghosts commonly do? Yeah, do they rattle chains or make spooky sounds? Do you just mysteriously see strangers in the distance that disappear? Do you think you walked through one and smell something really foul? Or is it really cold all of a sudden? Yeah. Do lights flicker? Mm-hmm. It's a haunted house. I'm never going to know if it's a light flickering from a ghost or a haunt. Or, in our case, it could just be the bad electrics. But, you know, what does the ghost do? What should I be on the lookout for? And is there any proof? And once again, coming at it from a skeptic's perspective, what is the proof of the haunting? Have any paranormal investigators verified this is haunted? Do you have any recordings you can share?

[29:32] And if you do, you should be, you know, sharing them. You should put them fairly prominent. But if you want to market with it, it's the problem. Yeah, if you want to market with it. Yeah, you need to get those things out there. So, yeah, basically make sure that, A, if you want customers to know that you are haunted, make sure they have all that information. Because that way they can actually engage with the haunting in whatever way they want to engage. Yeah. If they want to completely ignore it and move on, that's their business. And if they want to focus on this, that's also their business. Now, I'll say this. I was a little bit let down. An example that came from our past, when we went to Raven's Grenade, we had an amazing time at Raven's Grenade. Yes. But the hotel we stayed at was under renovation, and it had just been taken over by admittedly a very nice couple. Yes. They were wonderful. But they said, oh, this hotel is haunted, too. Every night at 2 a.m., you can hear a ghost walking down the hallways. Mm-hmm. R.S. stayed up to 2 a.m. to listen for this fucking ghost.

[30:40] And the motherfucker just didn't appear that night mysteriously. Like, if you're going to say that, at least get yourself out of your bed. Get some fucking cowboy boots. And stomp around. Like, I'm fine with that. Like, you're making people buy into it. I'm cool with that. I would have actually at least laughed my ass off of that. And it would have made an even better story. But the whole, yeah, we went to Raven's Grinning at a three-hour tour in an amazing time. Get back to the hotel. Oh, our hotel's haunted, too. Yeah. Just stay up till 2 a.m. And it was like 12.30 a.m. when we got there. Yeah.

[31:16] And it's like, yeah, the ghost of a cowboy walks around or something. Yeah. And then there was fucking nothing at 2 a.m. No. And the bad part is we had to get up super early the next morning, make the long drive back to St. Louis to return the rental car. Well, first we did the interview with Jim before we came back. But, yeah. The interview with Jim, visit the local cemetery in Port, then the long drive back, then return the rental car, hopefully before 5 p.m. that day. Yeah. So, yeah, we had a really long day. That was a really long day after a really late night for a ghost that didn't show. So, seriously, fuck you, mysterious cowboy.

[31:57] All right. So, reasons to do it. Why would you want to present yourself as being actually haunted? I think the obvious thing is that it makes the haunt seem scarier. Yeah, and for people... Well, so I'm on the fence about... Okay. Okay. Go ahead, Mel. No, I'm going to go into it in the next section. Okay. But, yeah, it can make it seem scarier for people. For some people. For some people. Some people are just going to roll their eyes and go, okay, grandpa. Yeah. And others are going to genuinely be intrigued by it. There is an audience that does seek that out in haunted attractions. Right. And as such, the second point is it provides a marketing lever, something that you can provide as a unique-ish selling opportunity. Now, I will say this. I do look for haunts that claim to be haunted, but the reason isn't necessarily to see ghosts is because I know it's going to be a historic building of some stripe. Exactly.

[32:58] And that is something to keep in mind, especially when you're decorating. If you're going all in on the we're a paranormal haunt as well as a haunted attraction, you don't want to overdo it with the new stuff. Yeah. Like, I hate going into historic buildings and historic places and seeing all these great brand-new animatronics and new paint and new wallpaper. Aren't you wary season one and not not one.

[33:26] Which one was it, then? Oh, they did the Cirque du Firo one, too. That was that bad. Yeah. And then, of course, the other part of the mortuary is that they have that great, beautiful, gorgeous building. Mm-hmm. Just absolutely amazing detail in the wood and everything. And the lights are so fucking low, you cannot see any of it. Yeah, I know. Every year, we go through that little bar, and I'm like, this is the most gorgeous bar I have ever seen. Yeah. It literally is. And they have done some years where they... They've used it and put it at work. They've highlighted the intricacies of the woodwork and stuff. Yeah. I just, man, there's so much beautiful in that building. I need to take a tour and not haunt time at some point to see it in better lighting. But it is a gorgeous building.

[34:16] Anyways. Yeah. This also does open the door for you to host year-round events, such as ghost hunts, paranormal searches, etc. Etc sleepovers sleepovers and also um there is a whole youtube culture around this you really can get some youtube traction some social media traction through this but yeah year-round events become possible here that you might not otherwise have and like i said it may just simply draw people who are curious about the haunting there are people that really aren't terribly interested in haunted attractions as we consider them, but are interested in supposedly haunted places. Right. So they can come during the off-season and check out the paranormal side. Or they can come during the on-season and see what they feel. I mean, basically, they can come by...

[35:11] And I don't know, say their curiosity, say their curiosity. Similarly, it may increase PR and news coverage. I don't know what it is about local news, but local news gobbles this shit up. Yeah. And it does not matter where you are. I have seen this type of story. Every year, as we get closer to Halloween and the news starts to ramp up, and I'm having to actually cut stories rather than just scrape together everything I can find, I always have to cut a few stories of so-and-so's haunted attraction is actually haunted live at WLMNOPQRY local station. Yeah. So many of those get cut. You have no idea because local media just goes breathtakingly gaga over this. I do not know what it is. And sometimes it is in like the most Christian religious places too. Well, and that might be why. I assume that people know that they need to go protest.

[36:13] Interestingly, the only protest we know about this year was in the fucking Boston area. Yeah, I know. Because I don't know. What the fuck, guys? Seriously. And finally, this can actually be educational, as you pointed out. Yeah. Using it to explain the history of the building. And like I said, if you're in a historical landmark, I personally believe part of your duty of care to it. Because if you use a historical building, you have a duty of care legally to not do a lot of things, basically. Yeah. To basically not do a lot of stuff. Yeah, and it's going to make your build harder. Much, much harder. It really is. There's a lot of impediments to making changes to historical buildings. And that's because you are a caretaker now of a piece of history. Yeah, and I would argue part of that duty of care is educating people about it. Yes. Is, you know, being that bit that spreads the message about what this building is, what it was, its history, who built it, why it was built, how it's been used, etc. And...

[37:21] I really do think that that is one of the very important jobs a haunted attraction should do any time they open up in a historic building. Yeah. I mean, it really doesn't take much effort. No. You just had the mortuary's page up about the history of the building. Yes. It was a very nice and lovely page. And to make a note about the mortuary, we've been picking on them a lot this episode and don't mean to. They had huge controversy when they first opened. Yeah, and I think that would be in the reasons not to do it. That would be in the next section. Yeah, we'll put it down there. Yeah. So, yeah, let's just skip to the reasons not to do it. The first one is if you see above, it can hurt your property value. If you own the property, this could harm you. Because at some point, however many years down the line you go to sell it, people are going to be looking up information about the place, and all the headlines are going to be haunted, haunted, haunted.

[38:20] And yeah, a lot of most buyers probably won't pay too much attention to that, especially if it's a commercial building. But some will. Yeah. And that's going to hurt the value because now there's fewer people who want it. Right. And it's also going to restrict how much renovation and add-ons you can do. Like, a lot of historical property doesn't come with a lot of area around it, inside cities at least.

[38:51] Yeah. So you're not going to have a lot of expansion room. Yeah. And the second issue is that it just can be at least disrespectful. And this is why we're hanging with the mortuary, is when they opened, I think in 2006, there was a lot of pushback because it was an old Jewish mortuary next to the Jewish cemetery. Yeah and people alive knew people who were processed who went through that mortuary were buried in that cemetery yeah basically there were people still alive well and we have a a very strong um jewish culture here oh yeah and and there were protests about them being able to buy the building yeah it started yeah it started even before they opened yeah it was when they bought the building when they announced the plans to make it a haunted attraction and then again when they called it the haunted mortuary yeah they came back again um so yeah it can feel disrespectful especially if there are living victims or victim you know people right knew them and i think the reason we're picking on them is because they're the only one locally that really does locally that that has had paranormal investigators out that we know of yeah i don't think the 13th gator rise have No. I don't think they have. Those are new builds. Yeah, those are, well, I think 13th Gate's a warehouse. Yeah. But it's not, it doesn't have any legit kind of a warehouse. And so is New Orleans Nightmare.

[40:19] So I don't think any of those are in historic buildings or historic landmarks. Which is kind of funny because New Orleans Nightmare almost could because of the history of the House of Shock there. Yeah. There's enough urban legend around the House of Shock that could probably make a compelling haunted story for New Orleans Nightmare. Yeah. But the problem is the owners of New Orleans Nightmare, 13th floor, want to get as far the fuck away from the House of Shock as they can get. Yeah. Anyway. I'm still on pentagram duty when I go through. Yeah. Yeah. So it could be disrespectful, and that could be harmful to some people who are still alive, as Glynos would say. Right. And some people who are, you know, true believers of paranormal stay away from those spaces. So you might actually be turning people away without realizing it. Yeah. And that's a thing in New Orleans. It doesn't seem to have harmed mortuary's numbers much that I've seen. But there is a large community of people in this city who if something is haunted or spooky or like organically spooky they try to avoid it now how the fuck you live in new orleans like that i don't know no because by any fucking rights like 90 of the city should be super on it it's like trying to avoid seafood here it's just not able to be done yeah do not move to new orleans if you don't like ghosts, if you're allergic to shellfish. Yeah. Oh, and you hate bridges. Mm-hmm.

[41:47] And if you don't do well in humidity, you should just write fuck off, too, because you're not going to last five minutes. But yeah, that's your point. Depending upon the superstitions of the area and the religious history of the area, some people may be steered away from it. Where a happy little haunted house might be perfectly fine, but an actual haunted house? No, no, no, no. I don't want that vibe, man. Well, and that's one of the things I've noticed here is that every time I tell people I have a haunted house and in my garage, they're like, your garage is haunted? And I'm like, no, it's a haunted attraction. It's completely fake. It's not. Oh, I'm going to come by now. Yeah, exactly. That's the moment they say they want to come. Exactly. No, they're like, oh, your house is haunted. Well, fuck you. We're going to have to meet at my house. Yeah. There's a lot of confusion around that term in this area, I think, more than in others. Yeah, I would agree with that. It'd be interesting to check other historic cities, though. Yeah. See if it's just a historic cities area. Yeah, I remember when we were looking at Charleston, South Carolina. From a history standpoint, it is fairly similar to New Orleans. Reasonably similar, at least. But from a cultural standpoint, it is a total fucking other universe. Yeah. Which is why we didn't move there. Right.

[43:08] So it'd be interesting to see if they had that issue as well. Because it could just be a historical town thing. So like Charleston, Boston, New York, towns like that with a lot of old history. It'd be interesting.

[43:22] Here's the thing that really gets and bothers me. If you're really going to do it and do it right, it binds you to a single story and theme.

[43:32] Okay. Possibly at least. Yeah. Because we're kind of bound to a single character, but the story changes every year. But, but yeah, because like doing, there are some things that just should not be done in historic spaces. Unless it was a circus at one point. Yeah. And the thing about it is like, you could like, I could see doing, if you wanted to do a Bernie Baxter-like thing and have an actual haunted attraction, go watch the 13 Ghosts of Scooby-Doo. Highly recommended Vincent Price documentary.

[44:12] Someone who does not know what that show is is going to look at it and go, why is it animated? There are some people who don't know who Vincent Price is that just heard his name for the first time. Okay. My friends, if this is the first time you have heard the name of Vincent Price, I want you to pause this podcast no more podcasts today you are going to find any streaming service and put on Vincent Price flicks I actually would recommend The Tingler yeah that was a fun one because it's a fun stupid movie but it proves Vincent Price is capable of making you believe absolutely any stupid shit you write for him because it is a dumb movie but man does he sell it.

[44:55] Also Last Man on Earth is really good Oh, yeah, that one was really good. The original, not the Will Smith one. You've got to go to the black and white one. Yeah, no, there's tons of Vincent Price movies. Also on Haunted Hill. Or if you just want to know, like, the moment that I knew I loved Vincent Price, Michael Jackson's Thriller. Yes. We've talked about it on the podcast before. That voice chilled me as a child. Yeah, I mean, that was like, as a kid for me, it was like, oh, that voice did things to my spine that made me very uncomfortable. I have to look up more. Yes. They gave you tingles. Exactly. Which is why the tingler is good. You see, we come full circle. Exactly. But, yeah. The other problem, though, is that a ghost is something you probably can't live up to. Yeah. Because here's the thing.

[45:44] Most, once again, skeptic here, but also acknowledging people. Most people who believe in it, the symptoms of a haunting are very subtle. Right. I felt a gust of cold air. I heard a noise off in the distance. Yeah. Or I felt like I heard a murmur of someone talking to me. You ain't going to notice that shit in a haunted house. Yeah. Not when there's drop panels going off, props fire, and people jumping out at you. You're not going to see those types of subtle things. Yeah. Unless you try to pivot it into where it's not a traditional haunted house, but kind of a mesh between the two. Like you claim that these are the things that the ghosts do and then you make them happen like the old charlatans of readings and stuff well while we're talking about Vincent Price look up William Castle.

[46:33] Same thing exactly so yeah if you do not know vincent price and william castle are you got homework yeah you have been assigned it there'll be a test on monday of next week yes um but yeah i just don't think that go leaning too hard into that we're actually haunted is the best thing long term for these reasons yeah and i honestly think that they're so different of attractions which is kind of what you were just talking about. Yeah. That they just don't mesh in season together. No. And I think that people who believe in paranormal, one of the things that keeps a place more haunted... Is less people. Less people, less visitors, less changes to it. Yeah, you're not going to have a strong paranormal experience in a conga line. No. In a haunted attract, going through a haunted house. No. It's not that's not when people report those things every report is i was alone the room was dark and it was quiet and still and then xyz happened yeah and that's the opposite as you just said of the haunted attractions it's going to be loud it's you're going to be moving quick you're not going to be lingering around hopefully if the flow isn't any good jesus christ if you're lingering we have bigger problems yeah fuck the marketing issue we got to fix the throughput.

[47:57] But no the point being it's yeah that's just not an environment that during season is compatible with it the main benefit i think as we talked about earlier is the around the clock around the year stuff that you can do with it and the mortuary has leaned into that but then the mortuary tried to lean into being a christmas place which was fucking hilarious yeah but they made more on the Christmas than they did on the Halloween for a long time. No, they did it for a few years and then they just stopped and I'm not sure what happened there. I think it was I don't know. I don't want to speculate. No, but yeah, I think that if you are going to you know, do paranormal tours and stuff, then you've also got to tear down a lot of your haunts so that you can see the original building. Which is what the mortuary does is at least they did they did i don't know they still do yeah i don't know they still do they were a full knockdown haunt yeah outside of the areas that were set aside for escape rooms.

[48:57] Well, on that note, everyone, thank you very much for spending the past damn near an hour with us. As we talk about whether or not you should promote yourself as being haunted, personally, I think it's just a rough thing. I think it's not a good strategy long-term. It might help some in the short-term, especially if you're a new haunt, trying to get noticed and trying to have a unique selling point in your area. But it comes at a pretty high cost long-term. Yeah. Sorry, I know we're in the conclusions, but I have a question. What is it? what if you buy a famously haunted house? Well, obviously, you're going to have to lean into it. You don't have a choice. So if you bought, like, the Winchester Mansion or... Yeah. Or, honestly, no, the Queen Mary. Yeah. It's supposed to be super haunted, right? That's one I heard about even before I knew there was a haunted attraction in there. Yeah. So, yeah, there you go. So if you do that, obviously, you have to lean into it. Because then that's the whole point of having the damn building, pretty much. Yeah. So, yeah. If you buy something like that. But then again, and the problem here is, I think, in New Orleans, the most obviously haunted buildings have really fucked up histories here. Oh, yeah. I mean, all haunted buildings have a fucked up history. Don't get it wrong.

[50:15] Just do your own Google. I don't want to go too deep into it. Yeah. It's fucking especially horrible here. It's bizarre. and also, like, one of the most haunted buildings in the French Quarter was, for a long time, a strip club. Yeah. Supposedly, you know, you could see ghosts in the VIP room, which defeats the point of going to the VIP room. Where the fuck was I? Conclusions. Yeah. Let's wrap this up. You were wrapping it up nicely, and then I just threw a curveball in there. Jesus, we've had such weird lives. On that note, though, please do check out all the places we exist. We're at hauntbuka.com. Haunt Weekly on Facebook, YouTube.com, slash Haunt Weekly. And, of course, nearly every goddamn podcast app you can think of. Until next time, I'm Jonathan. I'm Crystal. And we'll see you all next week.